Just drove DCT and Manual back to back Feedback Below.

[Carcollector212]

Finally was able to drive both and will say they are both entirely different experiences. Drove both cars hard for 1 hour each.

I was all set and excited for the manual but to be honest it wasn't that fast to drive and the shifter felt very notchy, Porsche manual gearboxes feel much better. I almost like the manual gearboxes in my 45+ year old Muscle cars better and im 100% HONEST. My vintage cars feel more natural and sporty when banging through those manual linkage 4 speeds its visceral!

this is my conclusion BMW M designed this new turbo motor for the DCT there is no way to say it otherwise because the manual just didn't feel right for the engines power band. No matter how hard i hammered the manual trans car it just felt lagging.

Keep in mind i drove both cars in Sport + mode for steering, throttle and suspension. Both cars have 19 inch wheels

the DCT car was a little rocket however i was not as impressed with the power compared to my SL63 and my CTSV. granted there is no excuse for V8 and displacement but i felt there was a pretty substantial power difference from my other cars in the stable.


Now i am still planning to pick up an M3 for a daily driver but cant decide if the 6 speed manual is the right decision after all. ugggg

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Carcollector212

Finally was able to drive both and will say they are both entirely different experiences. Drove both cars hard for 1 hour each.

I was all set and excited for the manual but to be honest it wasn't that fast to drive and the shifter felt very notchy, Porsche manual gearboxes feel much better. I almost like the manual gearboxes in my 45+ year old Muscle cars better and im 100% HONEST. My vintage cars feel more natural and sporty when banging through those manual linkage 4 speeds its visceral!

this is my conclusion BMW M designed this new turbo motor for the DCT there is no way to say it otherwise because the manual just didn't feel right for the engines power band. No matter how hard i hammered the manual trans car it just felt lagging.

Keep in mind i drove both cars in Sport + mode for steering, throttle and suspension. Both cars have 19 inch wheels

the DCT car was a little rocket however i was not as impressed with the power compared to my SL63 and my CTSV. granted there is no excuse for V8 and displacement but i felt there was a pretty substantial power difference from my other cars in the stable.


Now i am still planning to pick up an M3 for a daily driver but cant decide if the 6 speed manual is the right decision after all. ugggg

Interesting assessment. I have driven both and did not have the same feelings at all about the MT. Also while the DCT shifted faster the car didn't really feel any faster. Shorter Gears maybe gave you that feeling. I thought the MT was pretty fabulous esp after driving my 08 MT for years. Either way it's a great car IMO.

[Carcollector212]

Yeah the car overall is alot of fun but the DTC is so refined compared to my older SMg M5. I was expecting some kick in the hardest setting but it really felt like my Ferrari Dual clutch, however in the automatic mode the DCT from BMW is much better than in my Ferrari. I think porsche and bmw have these dual clutches perfected and Ferrari is right behind them. forgot to add that my Ferrari California 2011 feels slow compared to my SL and CTSV. I think these big displacement forced inducted V8 are pure monsters for the power band. I guess this is why there is so much hype with the new C63 coming out.

I also thought the manual gearbox car had more fake emitted sound in the cabin than the DCT car. id be curious if BMW did this on purpose.

[Carcollector212]

Oh forgot to add one car i drove has the carbon structure interior on silverstone exterior and i honestly liked it.

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by Carcollector212

Yeah the car overall is alot of fun but the DTC is so refined compared to my older SMg M5. I was expecting some kick in the hardest setting but it really felt like my Ferrari Dual clutch, however in the automatic mode the DCT from BMW is much better than in my Ferrari. I think porsche and bmw have these dual clutches perfected and Ferrari is right behind them. forgot to add that my Ferrari California 2011 feels slow compared to my SL and CTSV. I think these big displacement forced inducted V8 are pure monsters for the power band. I guess this is why there is so much hype with the new C63 coming out.

I also thought the manual gearbox car had more fake emitted sound in the cabin than the DCT car. id be curious if BMW did this on purpose.

WTF

[rubber_ducky]

I don't understand this comment: "*the manual just didn't feel right for the engines power band."

If not an engine with a high, flat torque curve, what type of engine should it be mated to?

Certainly the manual is a better match for the F8x's motor vs that of the E9x.

[damnitBobby]

No doubt the DCT will be faster the gear shifts are instantaneous in that transmission

While I have never driven a manual ///M car, I have driven a MT 335i and Audi S4. The shifting experience was better in the Audi in my opinion. The 335i had a vague, notchy feel like you described. Entry into each gate wasn't as smooth and natural. As a point of reference, I would say the MT in the s2000 or rx8 are one of the best shifting transmissions I've laid my hand on.

It may just be your butt dyno telling you that the MT M3 was slow.. but according to numbers some mags have put out it is only slightly slower in a straight line.

[shortseller]

Originally Posted by Carcollector212

Finally was able to drive both and will say they are both entirely different experiences. Drove both cars hard for 1 hour each.

I was all set and excited for the manual but to be honest it wasn't that fast to drive and the shifter felt very notchy, Porsche manual gearboxes feel much better. I almost like the manual gearboxes in my 45+ year old Muscle cars better and im 100% HONEST. My vintage cars feel more natural and sporty when banging through those manual linkage 4 speeds its visceral!

this is my conclusion BMW M designed this new turbo motor for the DCT there is no way to say it otherwise because the manual just didn't feel right for the engines power band. No matter how hard i hammered the manual trans car it just felt lagging.

Keep in mind i drove both cars in Sport + mode for steering, throttle and suspension. Both cars have 19 inch wheels

the DCT car was a little rocket however i was not as impressed with the power compared to my SL63 and my CTSV. granted there is no excuse for V8 and displacement but i felt there was a pretty substantial power difference from my other cars in the stable.


Now i am still planning to pick up an M3 for a daily driver but cant decide if the 6 speed manual is the right decision after all. ugggg

After kind of hammering the BMW MT within the first 5 paragraphs, even admittedly liking your 45+ year old stick better(I've had my share of Hurst and Muncie shifters growing up), then contemplation in the last sentence, you are still undecided which one to go for...As a DD mind you, seriously? I'm having a hard time taking your post as anything but whimsical. You have auto written all over you!

[Hoopumpers]

Completely agree OP. Wanted the MT so bad, but it just wasn't paired well to this car. DCT has its drawbacks too. Previous generation Porsche manuals have spoiled me

[JoeFromPA]

There was one case of an individual who took a delivered 6MT that couldn't go into reverse....and it makes me wonder if you had a defective/problematic 6MT.

I can tell you that in all my different 6MT ownerships, the M3...

1. Has by far the friendliest clutch I've ever driven. It is the most forgiving clutch, and it's quite lightweight. Yet it has enough of a friction zone to detect where it's engaging.

2. One of the smoother shifters I've ever felt with very little notchiness or resistance between gears. It's not quite a "two finger" shifter ala Honda's S2000, but it's nearly at that zone.

...

I also found the car more visceral with the 6MT than the DCT, but that's far more subjective I guess. I didn't get the same sense of punch-in-the-gut acceleration in the DCT as I did/do in the 6MT, even though the 6MT is technically slower.

[kitesurfer]

Get the manual because perhaps one day in the not too distant future you will not be able to get a manual and when that day comes you will only be left with forum talk of the good old days when manuals were offered

[solstice]

And this is why it's so good that BMW offers choices. Some of us experience things so differently and enjoy different things. I think the MT rocks in this car.

I think it would be clever by BMW to add the 8-speed ZF as another option. Now when the M3 is quite luxurious and rather large, this would help lure more of the AMG, IS-F and Jag buyers into the M3/M4. People who want the power and "cool" factor of the M3/M4 but like a smooth shifting, very easy to drive car. I didn't say women Lups... And a base M3 is close enough to that of a loaded F30 so they could pretty much scrap the 335i if they did this.

[sandwi54]

Originally Posted by kitesurfer

Get the manual because perhaps one day in the not too distant future you will not be able to get a manual and when that day comes you will only be left with forum talk of the good old days when manuals were offered

I agree with you. Hence why I just changed my order from DCT to manual. I have been driving my automatic 328i for the past two years and I really miss manual and how I am in complete control of the gearing, despite the fact that I spend 50% of my commute in stop-and-go traffic.

[Carcollector212]

personally BMW should make DCT standard because there are literally 4 cars on the ground in the entire USA according to a national locate with 6 speed and everything else is DCT

When i first bought my E60 M5 i drove the manual and that was an E39 M5 gearbox and it was not well suited for the V10, the SMG was specifically designed for the V10 and that car was alot of fun for its time.

I really enjoy manual i mean i drove my friends C7 Z51 the other night and LOVED every minute of it, that car truly impressed me overall and the V8 in that car is perfection, hey im biased all my cars are V8's

the Audi manuals shifter feels better and im not the only one who feels this way.

Does anyone make a shift kit for BMW shifter to make it feel more stout?

I own some crazy modified race cars some with 4 speed Jericho Nascar gearboxes and once you drive one of those cars its hard to get that feel from any modern car for sure.

Also the M3 with the manual felt almost identical to a BMW 1M with a tune almost identical and i tracked a 1M two years ago as my friend still owns one.

Im torn here to be honest i almost wish the new 2017 CTSV was out with a manual trans i think hands down that will be the car that would suit my needs for a DD.

Everyone has their opinion of course and i own and drive alot of cars and the feedback presented is just my very own.

[CSanto]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

WTF

Isn't this a great review?

[Carcollector212]

Originally Posted by sandwi54

I agree with you. Hence why I just changed my order from DCT to manual. I have been driving my automatic 328i for the past two years and I really miss manual and how I am in complete control of the gearing, despite the fact that I spend 50% of my commute in stop-and-go traffic.

one of my employees has a new 328 with 8 speed auto, it SUCKS, he hates his car so bad he is looking to buy a used E92 M3 now and sell his 328i

[Carcollector212]

Originally Posted by Hoopumpers

Completely agree OP. Wanted the MT so bad, but it just wasn't paired well to this car. DCT has its drawbacks too. Previous generation Porsche manuals have spoiled me

I agree my last 997 GT3 had one of the best manuals EVER and i clocked many thousand miles at the track with it.

[CSanto]

Originally Posted by Carcollector212

Also the M3 with the manual felt almost identical to a BMW 1M with a tune

Yet you still think the manual doesn't feel good. The 1M's manual is great, everyone who I know whose had one or driven one feels the same. It still doesn't have Porsche clutch feel and engagement but it's a good box.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

1. Has by far the friendliest clutch I've ever driven. It is the most forgiving clutch, and it's quite lightweight. Yet it has enough of a friction zone to detect where it's engaging.

I also found the car more visceral with the 6MT than the DCT, but that's far more subjective I guess. I didn't get the same sense of punch-in-the-gut acceleration in the DCT as I did/do in the 6MT, even though the 6MT is technically slower.

Funny you mentioned that because the light clutch on the E9X is what put me off about the manual among other things. It probably had to do more with the fact that my previous cars had these upgraded clutches which felt heavier and therefore more capable of handling power. Ofcourse that's not the case in today's cars and I understand that Still need to get that test drive with you to make up my mind

The punch in the gut is always more on the manuals due to the whole manual operation of the clutch when shifting quickly/aggressively. The DCT just smooths everything out so sometimes that punch is missing. It is more of a quick jerk on the S3 setting.

[Carcollector212]

Originally Posted by CSanto

Yet you still think the manual doesn't feel good. The 1M's manual is great, everyone who I know whose had one or driven one feels the same. It still doesn't have Porsche clutch feel and engagement but it's a good box.

its good not saying its bad but my GT3 def spoiled me in this department.

[M4isKing]

Originally Posted by rubber_ducky

I don't understand this comment: "*the manual just didn't feel right for the engines power band."

If not an engine with a high, flat torque curve, what type of engine should it be mated to?

Certainly the manual is a better match for the F8x's motor vs that of the E9x.

can you explain the difference? I don't even understand how one powerband goes with a manual gearbox or the other way around. For me, it's just preference.

The e9x has a flat torque curve and the f8x doesn't btw.

[sandwi54]

Originally Posted by Carcollector212

one of my employees has a new 328 with 8 speed auto, it SUCKS, he hates his car so bad he is looking to buy a used E92 M3 now and sell his 328i

My 2012 328i has the crappiest auto gearbox I've ever driven in a car. It hesitates incessantly and does not shift when I want it to, or shifts when I don't want it to. The shifting is also very harsh, especially in the lower gears. Everytime it goes from 2nd to 1st, I feel like someone has just rear-ended me. I have been told it's the result of the torque converter locking/unlocking abruptly.

My wife's 2014 328i is a lot better however and the shifting is much smoother. I guess BMW made an improvement in the torque converter. Nevertheless, manual is still the way to go for me.