[BozoBlaster]

I've started to hear a knocking sound coming from the engine of my 335. Stethoscope probed around the entire engine top to bottom, front to back, and it sounds to be coming from the top end in the back around cylinder 5 or 6. I've checked the oil filter and no copper glitter so I would like to rule out rod knock, I feel like rod knock would sound different than the knock sound in this video.
[u2b ]https://youtu.be/4rVIwGM04RM?si=i8C3_n0UdV-7zeWP
[/u2b]
Removed the cams to inspect lifters, rocker arms, cam lobes and bearing ledges. Just over 107k miles on this engine so there is typical wear on the ledges, cams and rockers. About four of the lifters squish in maybe 1 or 2mm, the rest are very stiff, could this be what is causing the sound from the video above? I'm going to be replacing the rod bearings regardless because I'm going to be replacing the oil pan gasket during my upcoming single turbo conversion, and I also plan on replacing all of the lifters, would appreciate any input on if anyone would think this would fix the knocking. I have video on the condition of cams and lifters if that helps add more context

[Mustafa.e92]

could be lifters swap out the bad ones or all if in budget. Make sure plugs are tight and teflon seals on injectors are sealing. Does not sound like it’s a bottom end issue to me

[BozoBlaster]

I want to replace them all but I might have to settle for just replacing the bad lifters for now since an injector seal kit and seal compression tool is a lot as well. Around 500$ for 24 lifters, 22$ each for the febi bilstein, 92$ for the injector seal kit, and 95$ for the injector seal tool all at ECS tuning. I can find ebay lifters but I don't want to trust those if I'm planning on putting out some serious power after my single turbo conversion. Good to have another opinion though, thanks for the input. I'm learning about these engines as I go and its great to have this forum at our disposal.

[Mustafa.e92]

Join n54 tech and other Facebook forums. These forums is dead compared to those. You will get way more input

[BozoBlaster]

Right on, thanks, that's good to know. I won't have everything buttoned back up until I'm completely done with the build but I will update this thread when its all finished to see if that was truly the issue.

[BozoBlaster]

I also forgot to add to the initial post that I have plugged the headports and have gone external with the pcv system. But I'm assuming that shouldn't have anything to do with the knocking other than maybe exasperating the problem parts. Just a bit of extra context.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Doesn't sound like rod knock to me either.

[BozoBlaster]

Got new lifters to replace the bad ones, waiting for my valve cover screws, I had ordered titanium screws since the steel ones provided with the VTT valve cover had two screw heads snap with being torqued to just 8nm, and of course when I got the new ones a week ago vargas sent me the screws for the n55/b58 valve cover not my n54 so its being held up by their slow/terrible customer service.

[Kayden Biwer]

I’m having the same exact thing issue as you are having. My motor has 97k on it and it makes the identical ticking your engine is making. I also believe it is the lifters so I’ll be watching for an update on if that solves your problem.

[BozoBlaster]

I've got the car all torn apart at the moment for the ST conversion so it will be a few weeks at least before it's all back together and running, but its the only thing that makes sense on what is happening. I have a video I can post on YT of my squishy lifters if that helps and I will update as soon as the car starts.

[apexxx6789]

Torque down spark plugs to spec. Had the same issue.

https://youtube.com/shorts/vhzYnnu31PQ?si=3mGK_vpu60bCaKR7

[BozoBlaster]

Could a slightly loose spark plug really make that sound? I did change those like maybe a year ago, and I'm sure I just tightened them down to a reasonable tightness, I'll give them a factory spec torque and see if everything together solves the issue.

[BozoBlaster]

Okay, an update finally. Changed out the 6 loose/collapsed lifters, changed the rod bearings during oil pan gasket replacement, turbos swapped out with a single. No more kocking sound so I believe the lifters were the issue, but now after briefly starting it up just to hear the single spool up, the car had a long 4-5 second crank then starts instead of staring right away then IMMEDIATELY goes into limp mode with boost disabled and I'm getting these codes;

2a99- crankshaft-exhaust camshaft, reference.
2a9a- crankshaft- inlet camshaft, synchronization.
30cf- wastegate- activation.
30d0- wastegate2- activation.
3100- boost- pressure control- deactivated.

I used a timing tool so I'm positive that the vanos timing camshaft sprockets with camshaft position sensors were put back together correctly at top dead center, cam ledges and cams looked like they would after 106k miles but nothing concerning. At around 600rpm the engine shakes very noticeably, I have never changed rod bearings before this but I followed the procedure correctly so I want to rule that out as well but I'm just not positive. I know code 3100 just means limp mode was initiated but as far as the 30cf and 30d0, for proper wastegate actuation I switched some pins in the ecu connectors as stated in most single turbo conversion DIY's for the new mac solenoid to properly control boost so I'm assuming a custom tune will help with these? I just finished assembling everything this afternoon and got excited and tried starting it up for the first time in a while, perhaps since it still needs a custom tune its causing timing and fueling issues? I'm hoping so anyway but with my luck I doubt that is causing the rough idle, anyone have any thoughts?

[Podunk]

Originally Posted by BozoBlaster

Okay, an update finally. Changed out the 6 loose/collapsed lifters, changed the rod bearings during oil pan gasket replacement, turbos swapped out with a single. No more kocking sound so I believe the lifters were the issue, but now after briefly starting it up just to hear the single spool up, the car had a long 4-5 second crank then starts instead of staring right away then IMMEDIATELY goes into limp mode with boost disabled and I'm getting these codes;

2a99- crankshaft-exhaust camshaft, reference.
2a9a- crankshaft- inlet camshaft, synchronization.
30cf- wastegate- activation.
30d0- wastegate2- activation.
3100- boost- pressure control- deactivated.

I used a timing tool so I'm positive that the vanos timing camshaft sprockets with camshaft position sensors were put back together correctly at top dead center, cam ledges and cams looked like they would after 106k miles but nothing concerning. At around 600rpm the engine shakes very noticeably, I have never changed rod bearings before this but I followed the procedure correctly so I want to rule that out as well but I'm just not positive. I'm hoping so anyway but with my luck I doubt that is causing the rough idle, anyone have any thoughts?

you mentioned you replaced lifters, and used a timiing tool, did you mix up the exhaust and intake cam gears at all? are you positive the pins in the timing tool where fully seated into the sensor wheels on the cams? did you torque them to proper spec? where the camshafts showing the QR code ontop during reinstall? was the crank pinned with the proper diameter pin? did the sensors become damaged at all? did you reset adaptations after all the work to verify it was starting at ground zero with reset timing? did you properly torque the chain tensioner? is the chain tensioner new or old and worn?

[BozoBlaster]

Originally Posted by Podunk

you mentioned you replaced lifters, and used a timiing tool, did you mix up the exhaust and intake cam gears at all? are you positive the pins in the timing tool where fully seated into the sensor wheels on the cams? did you torque them to proper spec? where the camshafts showing the QR code ontop during reinstall? was the crank pinned with the proper diameter pin? did the sensors become damaged at all? did you reset adaptations after all the work to verify it was starting at ground zero with reset timing? did you properly torque the chain tensioner? is the chain tensioner new or old and worn?

No, the gears a re clearly labeled Ex and In indicating intake and exhaust, I ziptied the chain to the guide and other surrounding components to prevent the chain skipping any teeth on gears below and marked on the gears which teeth and which chain link where they lined up before removal. Sensor wheels sat both sat at a 7-8 o clock position with the timing tool holding them in place. Crank was pinned, qr codes straight up with the locking part of tool to hold in place. I only reset Vanos adaptations, not sure if there is anything other adaptations to reset. Tensioner seemed fine. I could not compress it by hand what so ever so I put it back in. I'm assuming it is origional to the car but I bought it at 98k miles so I am unsure. If the tensioner was faulty then I would be hearing chain slap correct, and I'm not hearing that so I can assume that the tensioner is okay.

[BozoBlaster]

I also took out both vanos solenoids and sensors, cleaned them and put them back in after start up with no changes, didn't do any swapping since I'm getting codes in both intake and exhaust sides.

[Podunk]

did you check and or clean the check valves in the side of the head that provide oil flow to the Vanos? have you done any live data logs to see where everything is sitting? what requested degrees and actual degrees are? how long has the car ran, and has oil pressure been verified to be in specification? did you mess with the VANOS seals on the camshaft that seal to the clamshells at all?

just kind of going down a checklist of potential causes here hopefully we strike on one.

[BozoBlaster]

Originally Posted by Podunk

did you check and or clean the check valves in the side of the head that provide oil flow to the Vanos? have you done any live data logs to see where everything is sitting? what requested degrees and actual degrees are? how long has the car ran, and has oil pressure been verified to be in specification? did you mess with the VANOS seals on the camshaft that seal to the clamshells at all?

just kind of going down a checklist of potential causes here hopefully we strike on one.

Hey, I don't mind one bit, I'm just glad I have you guys that are more knowledgeable then I available to talk to.

Didn't clean check valves, where are those located and can it be done with valve cover on? Other than the knocking sound the car ran fine before, I just get paranoid with these things being that the car is an investment and I don't want to be breaking stuff.

No to the data logs, which parameters should I be looking at for that? I assume it is the " VANOS Ex. Act and Req/ VANOS In. Act and Req"

Also not sure how to look at requested degrees. Is that under cylinder timing?

Car ran for maybe a couple minutes for just a few times, it sounded rough so I didn't want to press forward. I do not have the nexsys oil pressure sensor so I cannot get a reading on the exact pressure.

Yes I changed the old metal seals for the newer teflon seals on the camshafts, I figured since I was in there it wouldn't hurt.
I'm pretty good with a wrench but once we start getting into computer stuff is where it starts to get away from me but I'm still learning.

[BozoBlaster]

Could heat have anything to do with this maybe? I was doing all this work out in the sun in 90+ degrees. When I turned the car on the outside temperature display said 120 degrees F.

[Podunk]

Originally Posted by BozoBlaster

Hey, I don't mind one bit, I'm just glad I have you guys that are more knowledgeable then I available to talk to.

Didn't clean check valves, where are those located and can it be done with valve cover on? Other than the knocking sound the car ran fine before, I just get paranoid with these things being that the car is an investment and I don't want to be breaking stuff.

No to the data logs, which parameters should I be looking at for that? I assume it is the " VANOS Ex. Act and Req/ VANOS In. Act and Req"

Also not sure how to look at requested degrees. Is that under cylinder timing?

Car ran for maybe a couple minutes for just a few times, it sounded rough so I didn't want to press forward. I do not have the nexsys oil pressure sensor so I cannot get a reading on the exact pressure.

Yes I changed the old metal seals for the newer teflon seals on the camshafts, I figured since I was in there it wouldn't hurt.
I'm pretty good with a wrench but once we start getting into computer stuff is where it starts to get away from me but I'm still learning.

The check valves/filters are located in the front of the head behind the wires that run down the side , you will need to remove your vacuum reservoirs if you haven't relocated them yet, not sure on the Torque bit size, i still have yet to take my new ones out of the package and check.

when you replaced the seals was the clamshell in good condition? since you mention they where metal prior they could have worn a groove into the clamshells too deep for the teflon seals.

on datalogs, yes you want Exh Req and Act, same with Intake Req and Act.

i will look in my protools app tomorrow and see if there is any cam/crank position options.

I'm assuming you used assembly lube when putting the cams back in the clamshells, which if you cleaned everything up real good, it may be a temporary oiling/pressure issue but it shouldn't last very long. as you took off the valve cover you also removed the fuel lines for the direct injection, so there could also be trapped air causing issues as well. not sure on an easy way to completely prime the rail. will have to research.

also for checking oil pressure I'd just remove the temp sender and plug in a gauge from the local parts store rental department, assuming they have the proper threading, and you have some Teflon tape, you're just trying to diagnose any issues, so a permanent gauge isn't needed.

and no ambient heat SHOULDN'T affect anything, as long as you had all proper tools, or equivalent ( like c clamps to hold clamshells in alignment) and such to reassemble.

[BozoBlaster]

Originally Posted by Podunk

The check valves/filters are located in the front of the head behind the wires that run down the side , you will need to remove your vacuum reservoirs if you haven't relocated them yet, not sure on the Torque bit size, i still have yet to take my new ones out of the package and check.

when you replaced the seals was the clamshell in good condition? since you mention they where metal prior they could have worn a groove into the clamshells too deep for the teflon seals.

on datalogs, yes you want Exh Req and Act, same with Intake Req and Act.

i will look in my protools app tomorrow and see if there is any cam/crank position options.

I'm assuming you used assembly lube when putting the cams back in the clamshells, which if you cleaned everything up real good, it may be a temporary oiling/pressure issue but it shouldn't last very long. as you took off the valve cover you also removed the fuel lines for the direct injection, so there could also be trapped air causing issues as well. not sure on an easy way to completely prime the rail. will have to research.

also for checking oil pressure I'd just remove the temp sender and plug in a gauge from the local parts store rental department, assuming they have the proper threading, and you have some Teflon tape, you're just trying to diagnose any issues, so a permanent gauge isn't needed.

and no ambient heat SHOULDN'T affect anything, as long as you had all proper tools, or equivalent ( like c clamps to hold clamshells in alignment) and such to reassemble.

Dang, having done the single turbo conversion with a top mount setup, there are no vacuum canisters anymore and the turbo us now in the way of the check valves so I think I will put that last on my checklist so I don't have to disassemble all that unless I absolutely have to.

I did take a video of the cam ledges that I just uploaded to YT;
[u2b]https://youtu.be/RHiZS-qsfGo?si=OgXEU8eCts1xj8gw[/u2b]

I have taken the VC off before and had some hiccups when FIRST staring up but from then on was immediate start ups like it should be but now there is a long crank each time I start up as long as I don't try starting right after I shut the engine down. Perhaps timing isn't correct? Maybe that should be a focus point.

I did use assembly lube, however I didn't use c-clamps, I just used heavy duty zipties with a zip tie tensioner tool that I already had for my profession as an HVAC Installation technician just as long as I only did a half turn on each screw in the torque sequence so the ledges didn't separate and didnt bend the cams and ledges with the cam locking tool holding both cams at top dead center. Was a very painstaking process.

I'll look into the gauge, but autozone is usually my go to for tool rental and this being a German car I highly doubt that threads will match up with any tools they might have. I will research what is out there though, maybe there are cheap temporary gauges out there for our cars that I can purchase? Either that or going forward with the nexsys sensor factored into a custom tune. I have seriously thought about that being that I have a single turbo setup now, I would want to make sure all parameters are perfect at all times.

Could it also be that I still need a custom tune to adjust to the new turbo setup? I just wouldn't have thought things would be this off since I'm not the only one who has gone though with this conversion and haven't heard others having these issues. It's all new to me.

[Podunk]

Just watched your vid, the seal area right behind the cam gear looks like the steels wore a pretty good groove, did you do the fingernail check to see if it caught really bad in that area? my concern is if its as deep as it looks on camera, you may be leaking oil pressure past the new teflon seals. causing the vanos gears to rely on internal spring pressure and be overly retarded. and that fix is pretty hefty and makes BMW worthy of the "bring my wallet" moniker if i'm correct, ( although decent used clamshells with little to no wear can be found in junk yards or on Ebay for much cheaper then what FCP euro sells the clamshell kit for) .


Edit: i would ask on other forums as well and see if they concur.