M1 vs competition

grant · 03-21-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Here we go with the hp/l argument.

What is this? A Honda forum?

Hp/L is an ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS measure of engine performance unless you're in a race serious with a displacement limitation, or you're dealing with a displacement tax.

I agree with that. Engines should be evaluated on HP/weight, throttle response, rev range (a motor that has fairly good low-rpm torque and makes high power at high revs is ideal), low center of gravity, small dimensions, and efficiency. I also favor a true dry sump for high-g oiling and long-term reliability when driven hard for long periods.

ARES45 · 03-21-2010, 07:38 PM

You know the best part of buying a new mustang? You know its a decent car because you will see ten just like yours on the way to work. One of the many reasons I won't buy a mustang/camaro no matter how good they sound/look/perform.

BrokenVert · 03-21-2010, 10:21 PM

You guys are just getting ridiculous. How can you not say the the new 302 wont be a good engine. Why do all of you guys have such a negative view of Fords? The fact of the matter is that they are damned good and reliable cars.

Its gonna be nice to see the asses of all of the Mustangs going by while im on the side on the highway with my 30th HPFP failure in as many days.

ARES45 · 03-22-2010, 08:43 AM

The HPFP problem does not worry me one bit, I have yet to have any indication that it might fail and BMW warrantied it for something like ten years and 120k miles. This is why I am not worried. I think the camaro and new mustang are excellent performers for the money and generally good looking vehicles, I just hate seeing my car everywhere. When I see a one series it is a pleasant surprise. Also, I am not a fan of high displacement v8's. And at altitude it is hard to beat a couple of turbos.

bmwzone · 03-22-2010, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARES45

You know the best part of buying a new mustang? You know its a decent car because you will see ten just like yours on the way to work. One of the many reasons I won't buy a mustang/camaro no matter how good they sound/look/perform.

Keep reaching for excuses. 3's are everywhere too.

5.0

AlBel1214 · 03-22-2010, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARES45

The HPFP problem does not worry me one bit, I have yet to have any indication that it might fail and BMW warrantied it for something like ten years and 120k miles. This is why I am not worried. I think the camaro and new mustang are excellent performers for the money and generally good looking vehicles, I just hate seeing my car everywhere. When I see a one series it is a pleasant surprise. Also, I am not a fan of high displacement v8's. And at altitude it is hard to beat a couple of turbos.

Don't get me wrong b/c I love the 1 also but wait until it happens to you 3 times in a year and a half... free or not that is totally unacceptable...

BrokenVert · 03-22-2010, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlBel1214

Don't get me wrong b/c I love the 1 also but wait until it happens to you 3 times in a year and a half... free or not that is totally unacceptable...

Agreed. Why is it that when the almighty BMW has a legitimate engine issue that it is simply excused. There is no reason why this issue hasnt been resolved after 4 years!

jeremyc74 · 03-22-2010, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adc

So don't ignore arguments when they are not going your way.
.

I'm ignoring it because it has ZERO merit when it comes to street cars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adc

I'll be sure to acknowledge that as I blow past those Mustangs...

Keep dreaming.

Red Bread · 03-22-2010, 11:11 AM

It's funny to see the folks with the cheapest BMW offering pretending that one of the most expensive Ford offerings is somehow well below their lofty standards.

MrRoboto · 03-22-2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Bread

It's funny to see the folks with the cheapest BMW offering pretending that one of the most expensive Ford offerings is somehow well below their lofty standards.

Is this a dig at ford or bmw?

Red Bread · 03-23-2010, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

Is this a dig at ford or bmw?

Why would it be a dig on anyone? I fail to see how either brand is different or better than the other? I'll give you that the live rear axle makes the Mustang a bit handicapped in this hypothetical comparison, but aside from that, and it's rather large size, it would seem like more than a fair comparison to a 135i, as it should prove faster in a straight line and significantly faster around almost any track, as the current GT with the Track Package is already on par or faster than a 135i.

I suppose all I'm saying is that I'd drive a Kia if it was rwd and as fun as my M Coupe, just as I'd drive a Jaguar or Cadillac if it was similarly sized and as well balanced as the 135i. I may have two BMW's presently, but it certainly doesn't mean that I won't consider other brands with newer product and possibly better offerings.

Just a quick comparison, but it appears that the Mustang is a rather comical 17 inches longer, 5 inches wider and 220 pounds heavier, so it's certainly not directly comparable in size, but does pack another 112 hp and 90 lb/ft of torque. So it's not really something I'd directly compare, but ignoring it simply because it's a Ford would be silly.

amdmaxx · 03-23-2010, 04:59 PM

Competition heats up:
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/23/r...below-c-class/

and 2011 STi should be nice as well.

esscolab · 03-23-2010, 06:14 PM

Will this never ending debate ever reach a conclusion?

It's soooooooo tiresome reading this Mustang VS BMW bullshit.

There is no comparison, END OF.

Get a life.

ARES45 · 03-23-2010, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwzone

Keep reaching for excuses. 3's are everywhere too.

5.0

Don't drive a 3, but I agree with you there. I see just as many of those as the mustangs (military base), which is exactly why I don't/will not drive one. When I drove a 95' buick regal GS (which will always have a special place in my heart) I liked the fact I didn't see any of them on the roads, especially still in good condition. That didn't make it a better car than all the mustang and 3 series I parked next to. I don't want to drive a bellybutton car.

For the record, the saleen mustang has one of the best exhaust tones that I have ever heard in person and I think the mustang is an icon in America, but i just don't want to spend my money on it.

As for the HPFP, it is a problem BMW has had and if it would fail on me more than twice, I would probably get rid of the 1er. However it hasn't happened yet and if it doesn't It may keep me from getting out of the 135.

BForbes · 03-25-2010, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

You guys are just getting ridiculous. How can you not say the the new 302 wont be a good engine. Why do all of you guys have such a negative view of Fords? The fact of the matter is that they are damned good and reliable cars.

I would not mess with that 5.0.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...ang-gt-50.html

BrokenVert · 03-25-2010, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BForbes

I would not mess with that 5.0.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...ang-gt-50.html

I was about to post this link. Hopefully people will move out of the eighties and realize that the stang will be a harass ride for not that much.

bmwzone · 03-25-2010, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esscolab

Will this never ending debate ever reach a conclusion?

It's soooooooo tiresome reading this Mustang VS BMW bullshit.

There is no comparison, END OF.

Get a life.

I agree. The 5.0 Mustang will beat the BMW in all aspects of performance - power, handling, straight-line, quality, stereo, nav, and styling.

Oh yeah, and price

BForbes · 03-25-2010, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwzone

I agree. The 5.0 Mustang will beat the BMW in all aspects of performance - power, handling, straight-line, quality, stereo, nav, and styling.

Oh yeah, and price

I disagree but it will be a great value nonetheless.

bmwzone · 03-25-2010, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BForbes

I would not mess with that 5.0.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...ang-gt-50.html

get ready for 395/0.87 = 450 hp crank
weighs 100lbs less than the v8 M3
more power
more torque
$20,000 cheaper

nice reply in link - this mustang is going to be amazing.

bmwzone · 03-25-2010, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BForbes

I disagree but it will be a great value nonetheless.

Which part specifically? Are you comparing the 5.0 to M3 or the imaginary 1M?

You know all the mags are going to be comparing the 5.0 to everything.

BForbes · 03-25-2010, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwzone

Which part specifically? Are you comparing the 5.0 to M3 or the imaginary 1M?

You know all the mags are going to be comparing the 5.0 to everything.

I will compare it to both. I absolutely LOVE the 5.0 Mustang but I'm not ignorant or delusional. I know where its flaws are likely to be. Just b/c a Mustang has more horsepower dosen't it mean it will be faster. Compare the specs of a 540hp GT500 against an E92 M3.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

It should be faster than an M3 in all circumstances. It's not. I've seen countless M3's be much faster. I'm hoping Ford works out its acceleration issues.

ChrisK · 03-25-2010, 10:53 AM

Here is what I don't understand. Mercedes Benz, Audi, and rest of the world has never been able to build a better balanced car than the M3...

Presto... Ford has a mustang with the winning formula? c'mon

This debate is ridiculous. Go to the Ford board and beat up on BMW.

03-21-2010, 07:38 PM	#222
ARES45 Major 34 Rep 1,002 Posts Drives: Join Date: Oct 2007 iTrader: (0)	You know the best part of buying a new mustang? You know its a decent car because you will see ten just like yours on the way to work. One of the many reasons I won't buy a mustang/camaro no matter how good they sound/look/perform. __________________ "Don't run, you'll only die tired" ~ Gunship Pilot
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03-21-2010, 10:21 PM	#223
BrokenVert Resident Kerbalnaut 477 Rep 10,703 Posts Drives: Topless Brute/Hybrid Boogaloo Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Fahrvergnügen/NY iTrader: (0)	You guys are just getting ridiculous. How can you not say the the new 302 wont be a good engine. Why do all of you guys have such a negative view of Fords? The fact of the matter is that they are damned good and reliable cars. Its gonna be nice to see the asses of all of the Mustangs going by while im on the side on the highway with my 30th HPFP failure in as many days. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-22-2010, 08:43 AM	#224
ARES45 Major 34 Rep 1,002 Posts Drives: Join Date: Oct 2007 iTrader: (0)	The HPFP problem does not worry me one bit, I have yet to have any indication that it might fail and BMW warrantied it for something like ten years and 120k miles. This is why I am not worried. I think the camaro and new mustang are excellent performers for the money and generally good looking vehicles, I just hate seeing my car everywhere. When I see a one series it is a pleasant surprise. Also, I am not a fan of high displacement v8's. And at altitude it is hard to beat a couple of turbos. __________________ "Don't run, you'll only die tired" ~ Gunship Pilot
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03-22-2010, 11:11 AM	#229
Red Bread Major General 4465 Rep 9,160 Posts Drives: Smog machines Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (0)	It's funny to see the folks with the cheapest BMW offering pretending that one of the most expensive Ford offerings is somehow well below their lofty standards.
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03-23-2010, 04:59 PM	#232
amdmaxx My gift Registry: M2 119 Rep 1,432 Posts Drives: Future Mowner of Monster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	Competition heats up: http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/23/r...below-c-class/ and 2011 STi should be nice as well.
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03-23-2010, 06:14 PM	#233
esscolab Brigadeer 74 Rep 728 Posts Drives: Black 135i Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colchester - UK iTrader: (0)	Will this never ending debate ever reach a conclusion? It's soooooooo tiresome reading this Mustang VS BMW bullshit. There is no comparison, END OF. Get a life. __________________ Eibach Sports springs, Evole Remap, Quafe LSD, AR Downpipes, Forge FMIC, Hart'ge Quads, BMS Intake.
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03-25-2010, 10:53 AM	#242
ChrisK Major General 4454 Rep 7,594 Posts Drives: '19 M2C Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chicagoland iTrader: (7) Garage List 2019 BMW M2C [7.00] 2015 Porsche Macan S [0.00]	Here is what I don't understand. Mercedes Benz, Audi, and rest of the world has never been able to build a better balanced car than the M3... Presto... Ford has a mustang with the winning formula? c'mon This debate is ridiculous. Go to the Ford board and beat up on BMW.
	Appreciate 0 Quote