Quick question about test pipes...

[miringrains]

I tried searching and couldn't find anything specific, I currently have AE performance exhaust. I'm looking for test pipes but have these standards:

-Reasonably priced
-Not going to be crazy loud with current exhaust
but most importantly
-Will not require any tuning/CEL

[aus]

Wrong section.

What you want doesn't exist and isn't possible.

[1MOREMOD]

Test pipes will cause cel and require tune. They take out primary cats.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Test pipes will cause cel and require tune. They take out primary cats.

+ 1 !

[spool twice]

testpipes and a delete-R is what you'll need. You can find delete-R's on sale used in the f/s section for a good price (usually $170-$200) to remove the CEL.

[M3-S65]

Originally Posted by spool twice

testpipes and a delete-R is what you'll need. You can find delete-R's on sale used in the f/s section for a good price (usually $170-$200) to remove the CEL.

Delete R masks the Cell, dealerships can see everything on these cars...What happens if you have engine/bearing failure? In the future when mother BMW stops handing out the good will ...are they going to start pulling past Cels they can see on your cars ECU proving mods performed? ...If you modified will they then use this as cause and effect leading to engine failiure? I dont know?? But its a higher probability of them not replacing the engine... for what 10 HP? Not worth it....IMOP...but If you got money coming out your ears...then who cares..go for it..

[miringrains]

Ok so X pipe is the nice alternative

[M3-S65]

X pipe has the main cats on it...so it will throws codes too. Also to remove the X pipe you have cut the exhaust to remove just that section....Mother BMW will not miss that when they see those clamps.. and codes....LOL. Plus limited to no HP gains from the X pipe, On top of that I heard when you remove the cats (either primary or secondary) you can smell the exhaust in the cabin. The smell is only half of it ...you can imagine what your doing to yourself physically if your smelling that poison crap at a stop sign and red lights....not to mention your kids/wife/girlfriend etc etc......

NOT trying to be a killjoy, although I know I am being one... but these are things that stopped me from modifying the exhaust - except for axel back...If someone want to chime in on a system that does not throw codes perhaps by using high flow cats in both positions with perhaps defoulers so no codes are thrown at all......and does not stink up the cabin with poisonous exhaust gases...I would buy it...pretty sure something like this would have limited gains making it essentially a waste of money...I already wasted enough money on an Axel back that did nothing for performance...

I used to own a car that we would put a defouler on the exhaust where the cat went, so we would not have to program out the codes. So that Dodge did not know and so that we kept our warranty. This essentially fooled the system and Dodge.. I hear nothing about defoulers on here...probably because the Engine Control System MSS60 is so advanced you cant fool it. http://www.modernperformance.com/pro...aliber_exhaust

[M3-S65]

FYI:
People call the first set of cats from the engine back "primary" and the second group on the X pipe secondary. Based on their order of appearance from engine back....

Per BMW:

"The exhaust system has one quick responding metal catalytic converter close to
the engine per exhaust line, (approx. 20 cm behind the exhaust manifold), followed by the metal main catalytic converter. The front silencer and the final muffler shared by both exhaust lines with a volume of 35 litres are constructed in an absorption design"

[tjsabec]

Originally Posted by M3-S65

X pipe has the main cats on it...so it will throws codes too. Also to remove the X pipe you have cut the exhaust to remove just that section....Mother BMW will not miss that when they see those clamps.. and codes....LOL. Plus limited to no HP gains from the X pipe, On top of that I heard when you remove the cats (either primary or secondary) you can smell the exhaust in the cabin. The smell is only half of it ...you can imagine what your doing to yourself physically if your smelling that poison crap at a stop sign and red lights....not to mention your kids/wife/girlfriend etc etc......

NOT trying to be a killjoy, although I know I am being one... but these are things that stopped me from modifying the exhaust - except for axel back...If someone want to chime in on a system that does not throw codes perhaps by using high flow cats in both positions with perhaps defoulers so no codes are thrown at all......and does not stink up the cabin with poisonous exhaust gases...I would buy it...pretty sure something like this would have limited gains making it essentially a waste of money...I already wasted enough money on an Axel back that did nothing for performance...

I used to own a car that we would put a defouler on the exhaust where the cat went, so we would not have to program out the codes. So that Dodge did not know and so that we kept our warranty. This essentially fooled the system and Dodge.. I hear nothing about defoulers on here...probably because the Engine Control System MSS60 is so advanced you cant fool it. http://www.modernperformance.com/pro...aliber_exhaust

Wow dude, your are putting a lot of misinformation out there:

An x-pipe requires no cutting of exhaust parts. The stock x-pipe drops right out and most aftermarket pipes bolt right up.

I am running test pipes and do not smell the exhaust inside the car... my secondary cats are still functioning... I guess this is somewhat subjective, but I just don't smell it... don't smell it with the windows up, don't smell it with the windows down...

I also think you are probably being a little paranoid about the check engine light / warranty... If you ran a delete R, and needed to have warranty work done, I imagine you could remove the delete R and reinstall the stock x pipe and then BMW would just think you had 2 bad oxygen sensors...

Deleting the primary cats on the M3 is the biggest power gain mod you can do short of a super charger.

[gazosnic]

you may be able to get by with O2 spacers to not throw a CEL w TP's. Some have reported success with the fabspeed j pipe ones.

[Dave07997S]

X pipe has the main cats on it...so it will throws codes too. Also to remove the X pipe you have cut the exhaust to remove just that section....

This is incorrect. If you remove the cats farthest away from the headers you will not get a CEL for cat inefficiency. As the cats that the rear 02 sensors monitor will still be in place.

Dave

[1MOREMOD]

Wtf, lot of wrong information here

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by M3-S65

Delete R masks the Cell, dealerships can see everything on these cars...What happens if you have engine/bearing failure? In the future when mother BMW stops handing out the good will ...are they going to start pulling past Cels they can see on your cars ECU proving mods performed? ...If you modified will they then use this as cause and effect leading to engine failiure? I dont know?? But its a higher probability of them not replacing the engine... for what 10 HP? Not worth it....IMOP...but If you got money coming out your ears...then who cares..go for it..

I'm not seeing where the OP was asking for an opinion on if he/she should do a test pipe mod? I see the OP asking what he/she should to to accomplish it, so I'm not understanding your reply?

[M3-S65]

Originally Posted by tjsabec

Wow dude, your are putting a lot of misinformation out there:
An x-pipe requires no cutting of exhaust parts. The stock x-pipe drops right out and most aftermarket pipes bolt right up.

Are you sure its misinformation?

In the context of the conversation OP discussed first just test pipes. Then moved to just the X pipe which in the context of the conversation was not the full X pipe but simply the metal main catalytic converter (secondary cats) and the front silencer - not the complete system. Are you saying that the portion we were discussing does not need to be cut....?? Every aftermarket PDF I see , and video also says you need need to cut it...??

PDF INSTALL clearly showing cutting: http://billswebspace.com/SosiXPipe.htm

NOW VIDEO clearly showing cutting:

[s85e90]

test pipes DO NOT require a tune. Save your money and put it elsewhere. Gains are great and will run fine.

[M3-S65]

Originally Posted by tjsabec

Wow dude, your are putting a lot of misinformation out there:

I am running test pipes and do not smell the exhaust inside the car... my secondary cats are still functioning... I guess this is somewhat subjective, but I just don't smell it... don't smell it with the windows up, don't smell it with the windows down...

Perhaps you dont smell it...however others have complained about it. I was simply giving the OP everything what I have read and experienced. I had a friend with a catless system and it stunk...perhaps he had a leak, perhaps he did not...I don't think its misinformation.....especially when others are complaining on the forum and your not...??

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...f+primary+cats

Plus you are in this thread discussing cutting the pipes as mentioned before....???

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by M3-S65

Perhaps you dont smell it...however others have complained about it. I was simply giving the OP everything that I have read and experienced. I had a friend with a catless system and it stunk...perhaps he had a leak perhaps, perhaps he did not...I dont think its misinformation.....when others are complaining on the forum and your not...??

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...f+primary+cats

Plus you are in this thread discussing cutting the pipes as mentioned before....???

two things though from your above post:


You state there's no gains in the x pipe, when deleting the primary cats are teh biggest HP increase you can do per $$ on this car.

Second you talk about the smell, which is def present, but worrying about adverse health effects is absurd as Cat converters only came out in the 70s and I know plenty of healthy people from before that era.

[M3-S65]

Originally Posted by spool twice

I'm not seeing where the OP was asking for an opinion on if he/she should do a test pipe mod? I see the OP asking what he/she should to to accomplish it, so I'm not understanding your reply?

Wow you guys are piece of work....You sound like a vendor....
If someone was motivated to do something...(obviously they are motivated because they already know about the positives horsepower etc...) would you not inform them about potential negatives also? .. so they know what they are getting into? I wish I had been told the negatives in some of my past installs in my life....

[s85e90]

My car (fully catless w/ 4 resonators) stinks.. Alot. But I like it

[M3-S65]

Originally Posted by s85e90

two things though from your above post:


You state there's no gains in the x pipe, when deleting the primary cats are teh biggest HP increase you can do per $$ on this car.

Second you talk about the smell, which is def present, but worrying about adverse health effects is absurd as Cat converters only came out in the 70s and I know plenty of healthy people from before that era.

I stated minimal gains from the removal of the mid X pipe. I was not discussing the primary cat removal? What are you talking about??
You guys are jumping to conclusion for some reason that I am discussing the entire X pipe with secondary and primary cats. I was discussing based on the conversation the removal and replacement of the mid X pipe only ...secondary cats and front silencers. The removal of this portion has been argued to not have much of a HP gain at all...but then again many of you probably believe you can gain 10 hp from a drop in filter...so perhaps I should just bow out of this and leave you to believe what you want....

Worrying about adverse health effects is absurd? How about common sense...If you think inhaling exhaust gases/ carbon monoxide has no health effects overtime...and your willing to have your little girl in the back seat sucking that up...than test it out overtime.....your risk. Again this is common sense ..so I am going to bow out of this one...

Good luck OP....

[M3-S65]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

This is incorrect. If you remove the cats farthest away from the headers you will not get a CEL for cat inefficiency. As the cats that the rear 02 sensors monitor will still be in place.

Dave

Unsure I understand what your saying...both primary and secondary cats have 02 sensors....correct? If you mess with either one at different times or together who cares.....codes and the MS660 will know so BMW will know..period. You can try to fake the system but believe me they can see everything the computer throws up...and 1+1 = modifications = possible warranty refusal. If you got plenty of money and don't care about this, then forget what I am saying. I have dealt with this issue with a friend and Chevrolet and exhaust modifications that they tried to say was part of multiple modifications that actually did not exist. Chevrolet tried to imply that this was part of the cause for engine damage...Now thier claim did not stick as they could not prove other modifications but they tried, and it was a PITA. If you want to deal with maybes and hope that BMW will continue graciously hand out good will to modified systems as the years go by then that is your call....everyone has different varying degrees of risk they are willing to take and money...good luck!