[Aloush]

So I've been searching around for an answer to this problem I've been having but can't find a thread with my exact situation..

Basically, when I drive normal the car acts normal. When I push it to red line, the car gives full power, the turbos spool up nicely and it doesn't do anything out of the ordinary. But right in the middle of these two cases, I encounter my problem…. Under load, I get a rattle/fluttering sound from the engine bay and eventually end up with a cylinder shutting down and the car goes into safe/limp mode running on 5 cylinders.. As soon as that happens I get a check engine light but as soon as I turn the car off and back on again its gone and the car is running normal until I hit that perfect storm again… If I let off before it throws the code, I hear a very feint whistling sound that lasts for about 2 seconds..

So I had a buddy check the code (since I'm still waiting for my OBD and softwares that I ordered) and it said misfire on cylinder 3. I went ahead and changed the spark plugs and while there, I switched coil 3 with coil 1 to see if it was a bad coil. Sadly, when i replicated the problem it still said misfire on cylinder 3.. I put some STP fuel system cleaner in today and the car is running a tad smoother but I'm still able to replicate the problem…

To my understanding, if an injector gives out it would throw a code.. So I'm quite lost now and don't know what to check next.. Could it be a vacuum leak? Wastegate actuator adjustment? Intake valve cleaning? Sorry if this has been discussed before but believe you me I've spent the past week trying to find a thread with an solution to my problem... Any input would be greatly appreciated!!!

[Gizm0]

It's probably an injector. If its always throwing the misfire code from the same cylinder after you swap coils and replaced the plug, then it has to be an injector issue. I've had the exact same issue twice, under load below 4000rpm, flutter/rattle coming from the engine and one time it was injector # 3, the second time it was injector #5... If I floored it above 4000rpm, it would run great up till the red line.

Check the two threads I made about this issue:

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21067

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22978

[Aloush]

Ahhh was really hoping it wasn't the injector..! But hey, at least it's not a bigger problem. I saw your video and that is the exact rattling sound that I have when accelerating hard under load... I will go about changing injector 3 and see post back here.. Since they redesigned the injectors, is it under an some kind of extended warranty? Fingers crossed this fixes my problem!!!

[Gizm0]

Originally Posted by Aloush

Ahhh was really hoping it wasn't the injector..! But hey, at least it's not a bigger problem. I saw your video and that is the exact rattling sound that I have when accelerating hard under load... I will go about changing injector 3 and see post back here.. Since they redesigned the injectors, is it under an some kind of extended warranty? Fingers crossed this fixes my problem!!!

No, the injectors are not under extended warranty unfortunately.

Note that you'll have to buy the exact same model injector as injectors #1 and #2 otherwise it will not work. You cannot mix/match two different injector models on the same bank of injectors (bank 1 is injectors 1,2 and 3, bank 2 is injectors 2, 3 and 4).

If you injectors model are the old ones and you can't find one with the same model number, you'll have to replace all 3 injectors on bank one at once.

The model number should be written on the side of the injector. For example in this picture, the model number of the injector is 7585261-11



I can't remember for sure which one is the latest model number but this thread may have the answer for you:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=802034

These injectors also have to be coded, you can't simply replace them. You can do it yourself if you download the INPA software on your laptop and buy a cable to connect your laptop to the OBD port of your car.

Injector coding: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=645844

Bonne chance mon ami!

[Gizm0]

One more thing: from ECS tuning website:

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E82-135....0l/ES2611291/

If you are experience a rough idle, misfire, or check engine light, this could be the problem. Earlier fuel injectors for the N54 have been a common failure item, this is the most up to date injector for the N54 engine. It is highly recommended to replace older injectors also if your car is modified or you plan to modify it.

It is recommended to replace all six instead of mixing and matching. Vehicles with old injector 7585261 will need to inspect their existing injectors to determine if these can be replaced individually. With an index of 11 or greater, injectors may be replaced individually with a new injector. If the index is 10 or less, all 6 injectors in an inline-6 engine must be replaced. For V8s, all four in that bank must be replaced.
Replacement also requires 13537564751 for each injector.

If your old injectors serial number ends in -11 or greater, you can just replace one. If the serial number ends in -10 or less, you're screwed...

ECS tuning recommends replacing all 6 at once but you can however only replace them by bank.

[Aloush]

Wow amazing help!! I really appreciate your quick and detailed responses! Yeah I was researching injectors and figured out probably changing all 6 would be my best bet... The car has almost 130k kms so I think they're about due. And after checking the service records saved from the previous owner, the injectors do not appear to have ever been replaced. Since my rims just got back ordered, I have some money to maintain the car properly and fully lol... I just received the software for coding and dcan cable this morning so at least that slightly brightened my day.. Are injectors a DIY job or should I let a shop handle it? I'm quite mechanically inclined and have a solid set of tools at home but is it a very delicate job that I should be afraid and think twice before tackling? Thanks again Gizm0!!

[Gizm0]

Originally Posted by Aloush

Wow amazing help!! I really appreciate your quick and detailed responses! Yeah I was researching injectors and figured out probably changing all 6 would be my best bet... The car has almost 130k kms so I think they're about due. And after checking the service records saved from the previous owner, the injectors do not appear to have ever been replaced. Since my rims just got back ordered, I have some money to maintain the car properly and fully lol... I just received the software for coding and dcan cable this morning so at least that slightly brightened my day.. Are injectors a DIY job or should I let a shop handle it? I'm quite mechanically inclined and have a solid set of tools at home but is it a very delicate job that I should be afraid and think twice before tackling? Thanks again Gizm0!!

Injectors are pretty straightforward. Shouldn't take longer than 2-3 hours for a handy person, including the coding part. Here is a DIY video... Disregard the part around the 7 min mark where the guy replaces the PTFE seals. He's only doing it because he is putting the same injector back in. Your new injectors will come with the PTFE seal already in place.

Here in another link to injector replacement DIY...

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15140

Good luck, update us and let us know how it goes.

[Aloush]

Quite an amazing update.... I ordered the injectors and while I was waiting for them, I found myself at BMW parts department one day, saw the fuel system cleaner and decided why the heck not.. Believe it or not, it has completely eliminated the misfire, hesitation and even the rattle!!! I could not believe that 20$ bottle actually fixed my problem... Also, I changed my gasoline from PetroCanada 94 to Shell V-power 91. Not sure if that assisted fixing the problem but thought I'd mention it if someone else finds themselves in the exact same situation as me.

Now I'm just hoping that getbmwparts will let me cancel the order for the injectors since its still in the processing phase... Keep your fingers crossed for me!! And again thanks a lot Gizm0 for all your help narrowing down that the problem was something wrong in my fuel system and not my turbos! Relieved me of a lot of anxiety lool

[Aloush]

Oh wow... That was a short-lived relief.... Misfires already back to exactly how it was before... But so far, I've found out that the injectors are actually part of a recall campaign on all n54s:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...+recall&page=2

There's a pdf showing the exact document that states the injectors are to be tested, scanned and changed regardless of mileage and time Going to go to the local dealership tomorrow (BMW Canbec for you Montrealers) and show them that in hopes of getting a freebie... Will post back here with updates..

Thankfully Tischer accepted my request, without any hesitation, to remove the injectors from my order. Really awesome people over there.. So now I finally get to buy a JB4!!!

[BashShah]

Just curious, I skimmed the thread (sorry) but OP..... Did you get a walnut blast done?

DN

[Aloush]

Originally Posted by DarkNemesis

Just curious, I skimmed the thread (sorry) but OP..... Did you get a walnut blast done?

DN

Nope, I only bought the car about 2 months ago... I know I'm due for a walnut blasting though

[Gizm0]

You could save yourself a few bucks and see if yourself if your injectors qualify for the recall. Check the part number on the injectors themselves. From the TSB:

Injectors with P/N 13 53 7 585 261 04-08 index are not affected by this Service action and should not be replaced

Injectors with PN/index 13 53 7 537 317-xx or 13 53 7 565 138-01 up to 7 565 138-07 must be carefully removed in a sequential order

The dealer will charge you a diagnostic fee just to look at the part number on the injectors... that's something you could do yourself in less than 30min.

[Aloush]

Yeah I went to them today and they tried to schedule me for an appointment but i just told them to scan my key to see if the recall has already been made by the previous owner... Low and behold it has been and injector 2,3,4 have been replaced.. But since it was done in 2011 they basically politely told me to shove it and that its my problem now loool... I'm going to double check all the injectors shortly to make sure they don't fall under the problematic ones, and if they do, oh boy... Will I ever raise hell... But thankfully now I know that I don't need to change a bank, simply 1 if they are all the updated ones... Saved myself quite a bit of money loool.

Also, I'm going to double check that they coded them properly because apparently that could cause a malfunction too (forgot where I read that). Who knows, maybe i won't need to change them at all if I'm lucky! I've never really heard of injectors giving out this quickly... Aren't the new ones supposed to last much longer?

[Gizm0]

Did you ever get your misfire fixed?

[Aloush]

Still trying to find an injector with "P/N 13 53 7 585 261 04-08" just to replace my cylinder 3 with. I found a couple selling them locally from a misdiagnosis so I'm simply waiting for their replies... I think it would be a smarter idea to just change the assumed problematic injector and save money than to buy a bank or all 6 at this point. I'm just staying out of the rpm range where the misfires take place until I get it fixed. On a side note, until I receive a new injector, do you suggest I switch injector 3 with say injector 2 to see if the problem follows the injector? Obviously I will have to code it, but would that be something smart to do as I wait to be 100% sure that it is the injector? Installing the JB4 today so I would be a couple of screws away from going about switching them, just wondering if its a good idea or a big nono:P

[Aloush]

Installed the JB4 G5 ISO last night and I must say, WHAT A BEAST this chip has unleashed lool.. But on another note I wouldn't suggest doing what I did if you're experiencing the same problem since it becomes much more difficult to dodge the misfire... Only reason bought and installed mine was because I went a week or so assuming my misfire issue magically disappeared after putting some techron fuel system cleaner. Would definitely suggest solving the misfire issue first before modding because its really hard having so much power under your right foot that you must force yourself to refrain from using... Just my 0.02$

On a side note though, I found a couple of people selling injectors and am just waiting to see which one is going to give me the best price. I have one locally willing to sell all 6 with around 80k km but not willing to part out... Not too sure about buying all 6 at once honestly. But regardless, I should have my injectors done by this upcoming week and will update with results as soon as it's done.

To anyone wondering, I didn't end up switching injectors since my torque wrench was being borrowed.

[Gizm0]

I would recommend against switching your injectors since you would have to replace the PTFE gaskets mentioned in post #7 otherwise your injectors could end up leaking...

If you are going to buy used injectors, you will need to replace the ptfe gasket. Part number 13537584315 ($2.32 from ECS tuning http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E92-335...h/13537584315/)

You will also need to replace the decoupling element, P/N 13537584315. ($4.43 from ECS tuning http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E92-335...64751/ES33738/)

Or you can buy both parts in a kit for $6.75 http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E92-335...751/ES2731857/

You will also need this tool to remove the old gasket and re-install the new gasket http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E92-335...Tool/ES200050/ I costs almost $200 but you should be able to borrow it from your local BMW dealership for a small fee... If the service advisor doesn't want you to borrow it, ask a tech directly...

[Aloush]

Never thought of the seals lol, thank god I didn't then huh? I was planning on buying the injector install kit from the dealership since if its 6.75$ at ecs then it'll probably be less than 20$ at BMW. I actually completely forgot about the seal remover tool, thanks for reminding me about that! I'll ask them to borrow it once I buy the injector install kit from them. If not, I would assume my friend (who works at a garage) could probably lend me something that could do the trick.. Will figure that part out when I get there lol.. As the saying goes, "you shouldn't buy the button before you buy the suit" and right now the suit is the injectors hahaha

[Aloush]

Quick little update... Just bought 6 injectors "P/N 13537585261" 3 of which have -05 last two digits and the other 3 have -09 so looks like they're all interchangeable! Tomorrow morning I'm heading to the local dealership to change the seal on one and buy a decoupling element then will go about installing it. After, I'm going to take the other 5 plus the one thats mulfunctioning for ultrasonic cleaning so then i can have 6 spare.. I'll never run out of injectors now hahah! Hopefully tomorrow I'll be misfire-free tomorrow and I'll update here with the results! Keep your fingers crossed for me

[Aloush]

So I changed the seal and decoupler element on one injector, install was quite a lot easier than I had imagined, but sadly i still have a misfire.... When i pulled the injector, it had no decoupler element, nor did cylinder 4 so i assume cylinder 2 as well does not have a decoupler either.... Quite upset, and now i suddenly saw a misfire on cylinder 4... Also, my cylinders 1, 5 and 6 are all P/N 13 53 7 565 138-02 which falls under the recalled injectors.. I called BMW now and am just waiting for an explanation as to why those 3 injectors were not changed... Furthermore, the injector that I pulled was COVERED in black/grey gunk... Really worried now..

Gizm0, what do you think I should do next? Should I swap out all the injectors or bring this up to BMW and raise hell lol.. Thanks in advance!

[Gizm0]

You did code the new injector right?

I'd replace all 3 injectors on that bank anyways.

[Aloush]

Yes ofcourse lool, yeah I'm doing that right now.. Update in about 1 hour hopefully