[n55david]

Originally Posted by Shaggz

i remember seeing somewhere people were having the ones on the top hat getting too hot and melting stuff.... was this bm3 or another brand? do you recall?

Don't run full e85 or an aftermarket lpfp without an ekp upgrade or something like that and it's fine.

[Shaggz]

Originally Posted by n55david

Don't run full e85 or an aftermarket lpfp without an ekp upgrade or something like that and it's fine.

i was planning to run stock lpfp bm3 fkex fuel, ds25, meth with e30-50

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Shaggz

i remember seeing somewhere people were having the ones on the top hat getting too hot and melting stuff.... was this bm3 or another brand? do you recall?

Im not familiar with this issue

[matteo]

I'm driving a 6MT on a Stage 2+ E30 map, but I've got the torque limits set to a 15% reduction across all gears to protect my 550i clutch (brings the max torque down to around 485 ft/lbs, per bm3's numbers)...

The question: My flex fuel kit is in the mail, when it shows up, is there a way I can ensure that I won't go over ~485 ft/lbs if the flex fuel tune scales all the way up to E50? or am I just going to have to make sure (ie continue to calculate) the blend never goes above E30 every time I fill up the tank?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by matteo

I'm driving a 6MT on a Stage 2+ E30 map, but I've got the torque limits set to a 15% reduction across all gears to protect my 550i clutch (brings the max torque down to around 485 ft/lbs, per bm3's numbers)...

The question: My flex fuel kit is in the mail, when it shows up, is there a way I can ensure that I won't go over ~485 ft/lbs if the flex fuel tune scales all the way up to E50? or am I just going to have to make sure (ie continue to calculate) the blend never goes above E30 every time I fill up the tank?

Are you concerned that the E50 adjusted tune will increase the torque the tune makes by a significant enough amount to make a difference? You could just conservatively raise the torque reduction to like 20%, but then you are leaving 'extra' torque on the table at the lower E%.

Also i thought people run no torque limits on stage 2+ with 550i clutch?

[matteo]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Are you concerned that the E50 adjusted tune will increase the torque the tune makes by a significant enough amount to make a difference? You could just conservatively raise the torque reduction to like 20%, but then you are leaving 'extra' torque on the table at the lower E%.

Also i thought people run no torque limits on stage 2+ with 550i clutch?

Yes exactly, I'm concerned that the E50 torque number will be higher than what I'd want to put on the clutch... but I've not seen any numbers from a Stage 2+ E50 blend before?

and yes, I haven't read about anyone reducing torque limits (besides me ) with FBO. I'm just babying my clutch until I get more comfortable with how it's going to perform. I could (and am probably) overthinking it.

[matteo]

The max boost limiter is pegged at 21.8 on the E30 map (map 3), and and 23.9 on the E50 map (map 4)... I wonder if custom setting it to 21.8 would do the trick?

edit: come to think of it, there's no way to know if the tune adjusts boost or timing with the increase in E% - probably timing. So I'm not really sure it's possible on an OTS tune?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by matteo

The max boost limiter is pegged at 21.8 on the E30 map (map 3), and and 23.9 on the E50 map (map 4)... I wonder if custom setting it to 21.8 would do the trick?

edit: come to think of it, there's no way to know if the tune adjusts boost or timing with the increase in E% - probably timing. So I'm not really sure it's possible on an OTS tune?

We should know the answer to that, but i dont remember off the top of my head. We did extensive testing and data analysis with JohnUN was first doing flexfuel and we plotted all parameters and different E%. I vaguely recall there being more boost too. johnung do you have the link to that flexfuel thread?

[matteo]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

We should know the answer to that, but i dont remember off the top of my head. We did extensive testing and data analysis with JohnUN was first doing flexfuel and we plotted all parameters and different E%. I vaguely recall there being more boost too. johnung do you have the link to that flexfuel thread?

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1868795

Found it yesterday actually...

I think the better move on my part is to just loosely aim for E30 when I fill up, and if happens to wander closer to E40, who cares. I don't think it'll make THAT much of a difference...

Got the kit installed today tho was def more work than I was expecting it to be haha

[johnung]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Im not familiar with this issue

FYI- It’s a known problem that happens in stock cars, and happens more often if the LPFP has been upgraded.

Symptoms are that the engine abruptly shuts down, and won’t restart until it sits for a while. Happened to me when pulling out onto a highway with traffic coming. Stepped on the gas and car died right there. Pretty scary!

Even more frightening, the stock electrical connectors on the EKP and on the top hat of the LPFP can scorch and wires can melt. There are some pretty scary photos of holes melted in the plastic top hat of the LPFP allowing fuel to come up and slosh around on the top hat which is supposed to be the barrier that keeps fuel contained in the tank.

All this happens behind and under the upholstery of the rear seat on the right side of the car, so it definitely is a hazard.

IMO there are several causes that come together like a perfect storm. First, we are used to BMW over engineering most of their parts. With the EKP module, BMW cut the capacity of the module very close to the maximum current that it would be asked to handle. And they chose to locate the EKP module behind a rear seat shoulder bolster, stuffed in where there is little airflow available to cool it. The module is designed to handle 18 amps and it’s fed by a 20A fused circuit.

Electronics like the EKP module tend to weaken with age. I use the analogy of the circuit breaker box in a house. After a period of time individual circuit breakers will weaken, fail and need to be replaced. The EKP module can work fine for years but as it weakens it can overheat and cause the engine to go into limp mode, or it can completely shut down the LPFP, cutting off fuel to the engine.

The scorching and overheating/melting of wires is caused by pins in the BMW electrical connectors at the EKP and on the top hat of the LPFP. BMW uses combo connectors that have pins with multiple uses. Scorching occurs on the pins connected to thicker gauge wires handling higher electrical current.

As I said, these symptoms happen on cars that are stock, but even more so on cars with an upgraded LPFP. Upgraded LPFPs are typically Walbro/TIA model 450 or 535 (or model 525 which should be avoided) aftermarket fuel pumps which can pull up to 27A, much more than stock.

The solution that I use is a Stage2 EKP from ET3 Design. It’s designed by an award winning ex-Bosch engineer. It is rated to handle almost twice the current as the stock EKP and it hs large heat sinks and a built-in dual stage fan to dissipate heat. A really clever feature is that it has a high current terminal block to handle the power wires coming into the EKP and the power wires going out to power the LPFP. So power no longer flows through those weak BMW connector pins at the EKP that are susceptible to overheating and scorching. The problems at the EKP are completely eliminated.

Soon I will be testing power upgrades to the Stage2 EKP and the Walbro/TIA 450/535 LPFP that are even more robust and eliminate any chance of scorching at the top hat.

Note: ET3 Design also makes Stage4 EKPs designed to control dual LPFP systems. Stage4 have higher power handling and a second block of high current terminals for wiring to the secondary LPFP. These setups work well with 600+ horsepower engines.

Photos and links below.
Hope this is helpful!

https://www.et3design.com/stage%202.html

[johnung]

[QUOTE=MarkyB656;30826243]

Originally Posted by johnung

FYI- It’s a known problem that happens in stock cars, and happens more often if the LPFP has been upgraded.

Symptoms are that the engine abruptly shuts down, and won’t restart until it sits for a while. Happened to me when pulling out onto a highway with traffic coming. Stepped on the gas and car died right there. Pretty scary!

Even more frightening, the stock electrical connectors on the EKP and on the top hat of the LPFP can scorch and wires can melt. There are some pretty scary photos of holes melted in the plastic top hat of the LPFP allowing fuel to come up and slosh around on the top hat which is supposed to be the barrier that keeps fuel contained in the tank.

All this happens behind and under the upholstery of the rear seat on the right side of the car, so it definitely is a hazard.

johnung what car are you talking about? does this happen with a G80/G82?

Mark

I haven’t heard anything about the G80/G82 in regards to this issue. If you look at the beginning of the thread, it’s talking about the F30 N55, which is what I have. If you look at the fitment guides for the three models of ET3 Design Stage2 EKPs, they are for E-Series and F-Series cars.

I hear great things about the G80 XDrive from buddies who have owned previous BMWs. They say it’s the best.

[n55david]

Am I the only one who finds "running stage 2+ tune for more power but I'm adding 15% reduction in power to save my clutch" fucking hilarious?? 😆 🤣 😂

Just run stage 2 with no reduction..

[lens]

Originally Posted by n55david

Am I the only one who finds "running stage 2+ tune for more power but I'm adding 15% reduction in power to save my clutch" fucking hilarious?? 😆 🤣 😂

Just run stage 2 with no reduction..

Literally, that or just upgrade your clutch, stop being cheap lol.

No idea why people expect to run a higher power map but don't have the necessary supporting mods for it (yes, that includes a clutch that can handle the extra TQ for 6MT, and XHP for 8AT)

[matteo]

Originally Posted by lens

Literally, that or just upgrade your clutch, stop being cheap lol.

No idea why people expect to run a higher power map but don't have the necessary supporting mods for it (yes, that includes a clutch that can handle the extra TQ for 6MT, and XHP for 8AT)

I did upgrade my clutch, and installed a new DMFW. Not being cheap whatsoever. I'm looking to PROTECT my new 550i clutch. This is my daily, I'm not looking to push the edge, I'm looking to have a fun/reliable car. Why's that hilarious?

[matteo]

Originally Posted by n55david

Am I the only one who finds "running stage 2+ tune for more power but I'm adding 15% reduction in power to save my clutch" fucking hilarious?? �� �� ��

Just run stage 2 with no reduction..

I don't find it hilarious at all.. why would I want to spend $3k upgrading my clutch and DMFW to just trash it? This is my daily.

and I didn't say power, I said torque. There's no reason I can't limit the torque down low, flatten the curve, and the keep the power up high? Seems smart to me.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by matteo

I don't find it hilarious at all.. why would I want to spend $3k upgrading my clutch and DMFW to just trash it? This is my daily.

and I didn't say power, I said torque. There's no reason I can't limit the torque down low, flatten the curve, and the keep the power up high? Seems smart to me.

You think that by reducing tq it only reduces power at lower rpm?

[matteo]

Originally Posted by n55david

You think that by reducing tq it only reduces power at lower rpm?

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1579736

according to the guy who made the tune... yeah.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by matteo

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1579736

according to the guy who made the tune... Yeah.

😆😅🤣😂

[lens]

Originally Posted by matteo

I did upgrade my clutch, and installed a new DMFW. Not being cheap whatsoever. I'm looking to PROTECT my new 550i clutch. This is my daily, I'm not looking to push the edge, I'm looking to have a fun/reliable car. Why's that hilarious?

If you actually upgraded it, you wouldn't need to protect your 550i clutch, it should be able to handle the extra TQ regardless.

[matteo]

Originally Posted by lens

If you actually upgraded it, you wouldn't need to protect your 550i clutch, it should be able to handle the extra TQ regardless.

I wish that were the case... I've already read of numerous people still managing to trash their 550i clutches. It seems it's not a matter of "if", but "when" - and I want to prolong that as long as possible.

I'm already getting shadow codes of 213A2D and 1D3001 (DMFW damage point, and clutch slightly damaged), and I just spent 500 miles breaking it in. Now tuned - can't be more than about a max 445ft/lbs of torque on Stage 2 E30 (assuming bm3 numbers are accurate).

[LA1Z24]

Originally Posted by matteo

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1579736

according to the guy who made the tune... yeah.

It literally says in the thread you linked "It's a global limitor in torque/load. So it will do it across the RPM range." so IDK what you're reading man

[lens]

Originally Posted by matteo

I wish that were the case... I've already read of numerous people still managing to trash their 550i clutches. It seems it's not a matter of "if", but "when" - and I want to prolong that as long as possible.

I'm already getting shadow codes of 213A2D and 1D3001 (DMFW damage point, and clutch slightly damaged), and I just spent 500 miles breaking it in. Now tuned - can't be more than about a max 445ft/lbs of torque on Stage 2 E30 (assuming bm3 numbers are accurate).

I would get an aftermarket clutch that can handle the torque.

It really doesn't make sense to run a higher power map, and limit yourself.