Rear roll over strut arm

KTE · 03-06-2022, 12:00 AM

Long story short, alignment place has been unable to adjust the rear camber on one side due to the eccentric bolt being “seized” in the bush.

As far as I’m aware from pictures of the part, the bush isn’t threaded? Perhaps some rust between the bolt and inner metal.. So assuming the nut comes off it should just hammer out?

Have a impact wrench and a hammer drill in the undesired scenario the inner bushing bolt to the subframe doesn’t budge.

Not sure if I’m overlooking anything or said alignment place doesn’t feel obligated in assisting… tried a few garages locally and turned away 🤕.

ISTA D states
“ Mark position of eccentric adjustment washer to rear axle support to simplify subsequent adjustment of rear axle.
Release nut (1) and remove eccentric bolt. Tightening torque 33 32 9AZ.
Installation note:
Note insertion direction of eccentric screw.
Replace nut.
Tighten down screw connection in normal position.”

Despite watching many videos, they all seem to be showing the knuckle bolt and rear shock bolts being removed. The one FCP video I found, they skipped the section of removing the bolt between the lower arm and subframe!

My intention, in order of preference:

Remove eccentric bolt, #9 on figure. Replace with entire roll over strut arm of both sides, including replacement bolt, washer and nut.
If it remains unmoved, cut around the bush to release subframe from arm, hammer out remaining spindle, remove shock bolt and knuckle bolt. Replace with new camber arm due to pressed bushing. Replace both sides in tandem.

The offending side:

image uploader

Is it really a ball ache like the few garages are suggesting?? I currently don’t have access to a torch but can pick up one suitable for the job if it’s going to make the difference, though with a lot being aluminium down there did want to avoid that.

Parts have been covered in WD40 already from previous attempts of the alignment, the remaining adjustments did “budge” after this on a return visit bar the one side for rear camber.

Alignment will be done after this is completed, naturally.

Craig-SM · 03-06-2022, 03:29 AM

Jack the car up using the lower arm and place an axle stand under the normal jacking jacking point closet to the arm and an another under the subframe.
Remove the plastic cover from the lower arm and raise the lower arm with the jack under the spring. Remove the hub knuckle and shock bolts from the arm. Then gently lower the arm with the trolley jack so you can remove the spring.
You can try removing the bolt using the heat but if it’s rusted into the inner steel sleeve of the bush you have to cut it out. To do this use a recip saw between the arm and subframe, cutting the bolt on both sides of the arm.
Burn the rubber bush out and then make a slit across the outer steel sleeve. Use heat on the arm around the bush sleeve and chisel it out. Clean the arm up and refit the bush with plenty of copper grease.

When using a recip saw, cut slow and use a quality blade such as Milwaukee Carbide with a cutting compound. Go fast and you’ll burn the blade out within a few mm of cutting

bishbosh · 03-06-2022, 11:40 AM

I took my car to the nearest garage which had a hunter alignment machine after I upgraded the suspension on mine. I supplied new eccentric bolts and nuts.

The bolts had seized tight and had to be cut off, dropping the arm and hammering out the remainder of the shaft. It's a poor design for an adjustable part not to be better protected from the elements imo.

KTE · 03-18-2022, 02:17 PM

Thanks for the suggestions/experiences.

Living room looks like I’m preparing for a war tomorrow, but better over equipped than stuck under the car wishing you had something.

- Hammer drill with chisel attachments, varying widths, including pointed ones to push against bolt shaft if cut, or to shake it loose before having to go down the cutting route.
- Recip saw, with recommended Milwaukee metal blades, 200mm.
- Impact wrench (400Nm torque) - 2 batteries charged
- Halfords 200pc tool set
- Replacement roll over strut arms, these are symmetrical and fit both sides, and near enough every non M car across 3/4 series. This was a surprise.
- Replacement eccentric bolts, washers and nuts.

Will report back how easy that inner bolt was to get out, hopefully one of these options gets it done.

KTE · 03-19-2022, 03:59 PM

Ok - so things really went side sideways.

Things are definitely in an emergency state, need some thoughts or anything we may have overlooked.

The “seized” bushing just needing some persuasion with the impact wrench on the locking collar nut. The majority was surface rust which came off with the impact action.

Eccentric bolt came straight out by hand!!!

The problem: Popped in the replacement roll over strut, eccentric bolt through it (with some anti seize on the shaft/mid section) and washer in a position that fits between the two raised edges of the subframe, which makes sure it rotates within this area only.

No matter what we have tried, we cannot line up the knuckle bush between the arm. The shock is very easy, but this just won’t play ball!!

Things attempted:

- loosen bolt between arm and subframe to allow for flex/movement when raising to knuckle
- use camber adjustment to ‘lengthen’ or ‘shorten’ distance. Always seems that we need that but extra before it starts to go the opposite way.
- raise the arm under the end
- raise the arm under the spring
- raise the arm between the spring section and end of the arm
- Swear a lot as it got dark and I still fought on.

What are my options to allow some flexibility to line up the god damn (final!) bolt. I’m so frustrated to get the damn arm off and get to the final bolt being unable to line it up.

Have I skipped any obscure instructions? The above ISTA guide just says to replace bolts and get an alignment…

Watsey · 03-19-2022, 07:21 PM

I'm pretty sure there was a post about the same thing on the suspension forum a few months ago.

I can't be more specific but you may be able to find it via search.

Edit - I see you've posted there. Hopefully someone will help you out.

KTE · 03-20-2022, 12:53 AM

Thanks - thought it would be useful to post there too.

Did find some old threads via search after posting yesterday, just not labelled up correctly but similar issues it seems:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1741650

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1833253

The wheel carrier arm bush is flexible, but the slot it is housed in isnt. You can move the hub up and down, but not sideway/tilt at an angle.

At least the threads eliminate the idea of damaged arms in the post etc, even reattempted with the old arm with new fixings but no luck.

Will see if some rest and more daylight hours help today, such a pain in the ass job that last bolt!

Craig-SM · 03-20-2022, 04:32 PM

You need to pull out the bottom of the hub, away from the arm until it can drop into the lower arm. You will need to adjust the lower arm height until you can get them to meet.
Only pull hub slightly away, enough to clear the hub. If the lower arm is still too far to the rear then you probably have the jacking handle to the rear too and it will pull the arm in that direction as it lifts. Change the angle of the jack so the handle faces forwards and the arm will go in that direction too.

Mikej0h · 03-20-2022, 05:14 PM

That connection is a PITA, had the exact same problem when I replaced my springs (and the shocks).
As my memory serves me right;
- Removed the shock, as the additional pressure really didn't help (it's simple to place this back)
- Try rotating your supporting jack-stand so it sticks out parallelly with your wheelbolts - weight was added at a little different way, for me it was possible to stick a large screw driver in (make sure it's beefy one)
- Lower the supporting jack and place it at the bottom of the brake disc (be careful not to bend the protection plate, but even if you do, you can quite easily bend it back) - add a towel or wood block to protect the disc. Raise it until you get movement in the screwdriver and place the bolt (and retract the screwdriver of course), some love taps might be required

This how we got it done - no guarantees, but hopefully it helps you out.

Sasquartch · 03-21-2022, 04:26 AM

I had a very frustrating time when I replaced the rear spring on my 328i

As you say it's very difficult to align the hole, however perseverance paid off, although I remember it taking a good hour. Just keep moving things around, an extra pair of hands to manhandle the hub might be useful

It will go in eventually ....

Craig-SM · 03-21-2022, 05:50 AM

Don’t forget you can use a screwdriver through the holes to align them especially when adjusting the jack

KTE · 03-21-2022, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig-SM

You need to pull out the bottom of the hub, away from the arm until it can drop into the lower arm. You will need to adjust the lower arm height until you can get them to meet.
Only pull hub slightly away, enough to clear the hub. If the lower arm is still too far to the rear then you probably have the jacking handle to the rear too and it will pull the arm in that direction as it lifts. Change the angle of the jack so the handle faces forwards and the arm will go in that direction too.

What I found is that by the camber adjustment the lower arm pushes too far forward (towards the whee) when raising, even if locked with the nut, I had the trolley jack positioned under the shock/wheel carrier connections with a wooden block. Tried adjusting the angles I came in at.

The hub would move out when I used a 50cm long thick screwdriver, which was the perfect sized tip for the ball joint, but the moment I pushed the hub out and pulled the screwdriver out it quickly returned into the ‘bad position’. It was simply too tough to manhandle.

There is a lot of tension on the guide link arm that sits above the eccentric for the lower arm, not sure if this adjusts toe or not but didn’t want to loosen another thing to be unable to reconnect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikej0h

That connection is a PITA, had the exact same problem when I replaced my springs (and the shocks).
As my memory serves me right;
- Removed the shock, as the additional pressure really didn't help (it's simple to place this back)
- Try rotating your supporting jack-stand so it sticks out parallelly with your wheelbolts - weight was added at a little different way, for me it was possible to stick a large screw driver in (make sure it's beefy one)
- Lower the supporting jack and place it at the bottom of the brake disc (be careful not to bend the protection plate, but even if you do, you can quite easily bend it back) - add a towel or wood block to protect the disc. Raise it until you get movement in the screwdriver and place the bolt (and retract the screwdriver of course), some love taps might be required

This how we got it done - no guarantees, but hopefully it helps you out.

The screwdriver trick was definitely working, but even with a very strong one and prying the hub out I couldn’t keep the hub in that position, tried even using a scissor jack with a wooden block under the discs to hold it but it would go too far back in again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasquartch

I had a very frustrating time when I replaced the rear spring on my 328i

As you say it's very difficult to align the hole, however perseverance paid off, although I remember it taking a good hour. Just keep moving things around, an extra pair of hands to manhandle the hub might be useful

It will go in eventually ....

Two days later and it’s still unresolved! Definitely a well done to those who eventually got around to getting it through, the tension on mine seems a lot and wouldn’t stay in position if when using the screwdriver to pry it into position.

Thanks all for your input, I’m sure it would’ve worked out for me eventually but this is my daily, including commuting. Being super busy during the week I would have to leave it on axle stands for a week until the next attempt. Can’t predict external factors, weather, kids playground nearby etc ..

Bolt angled in and torqued all the way through the ball joint, but not through the other end of the arm. Getting the car recovered to a garage to finish off this side and do the other one so the arms are of similar wear/age etc. New wheel carrier bolt/nuts ordered as I’m sure the end of my existing one has worn a bit. Ordered some ball joints too, in case I sheared some metal through the endless pry attempts.

KTE · 04-02-2022, 07:06 AM

Got the car recovered and both new strut arms are on. Decided to provide ball joints whilst the above job was being completed.

Turns on the ball joint on the left was never seated properly from what looks to be factory (only one previous owner). The weathering/surface rust is not consistent across the circumference of ball joint, the hole size on the left rear knuckle (wheel carrier) is also larger.

Right rear side sorted…

Rear left awaiting replacement wheel carrier with pressed hub. The new replacement ball joint would not be securely fitted.

03-06-2022, 12:00 AM	#1
KTE First Lieutenant 85 Rep 351 Posts Drives: A slow car Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: England iTrader: (0)	Rear roll over strut arm - Seized eccentric Long story short, alignment place has been unable to adjust the rear camber on one side due to the eccentric bolt being “seized” in the bush. As far as I’m aware from pictures of the part, the bush isn’t threaded? Perhaps some rust between the bolt and inner metal.. So assuming the nut comes off it should just hammer out? Have a impact wrench and a hammer drill in the undesired scenario the inner bushing bolt to the subframe doesn’t budge. Not sure if I’m overlooking anything or said alignment place doesn’t feel obligated in assisting… tried a few garages locally and turned away 🤕. ISTA D states “ Mark position of eccentric adjustment washer to rear axle support to simplify subsequent adjustment of rear axle. Release nut (1) and remove eccentric bolt. Tightening torque 33 32 9AZ. Installation note: Note insertion direction of eccentric screw. Replace nut. Tighten down screw connection in normal position.” Despite watching many videos, they all seem to be showing the knuckle bolt and rear shock bolts being removed. The one FCP video I found, they skipped the section of removing the bolt between the lower arm and subframe! My intention, in order of preference: Remove eccentric bolt, #9 on figure. Replace with entire roll over strut arm of both sides, including replacement bolt, washer and nut. If it remains unmoved, cut around the bush to release subframe from arm, hammer out remaining spindle, remove shock bolt and knuckle bolt. Replace with new camber arm due to pressed bushing. Replace both sides in tandem. The offending side: image uploader Is it really a ball ache like the few garages are suggesting?? I currently don’t have access to a torch but can pick up one suitable for the job if it’s going to make the difference, though with a lot being aluminium down there did want to avoid that. Parts have been covered in WD40 already from previous attempts of the alignment, the remaining adjustments did “budge” after this on a return visit bar the one side for rear camber. Alignment will be done after this is completed, naturally. Last edited by KTE; 03-18-2022 at 02:09 PM..
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03-06-2022, 03:29 AM	#2
Craig-SM Captain 325 Rep 709 Posts Drives: BMW 320d M Sport - F30 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Leeds iTrader: (0)	Jack the car up using the lower arm and place an axle stand under the normal jacking jacking point closet to the arm and an another under the subframe. Remove the plastic cover from the lower arm and raise the lower arm with the jack under the spring. Remove the hub knuckle and shock bolts from the arm. Then gently lower the arm with the trolley jack so you can remove the spring. You can try removing the bolt using the heat but if it’s rusted into the inner steel sleeve of the bush you have to cut it out. To do this use a recip saw between the arm and subframe, cutting the bolt on both sides of the arm. Burn the rubber bush out and then make a slit across the outer steel sleeve. Use heat on the arm around the bush sleeve and chisel it out. Clean the arm up and refit the bush with plenty of copper grease. When using a recip saw, cut slow and use a quality blade such as Milwaukee Carbide with a cutting compound. Go fast and you’ll burn the blade out within a few mm of cutting
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03-06-2022, 11:40 AM	#3
bishbosh Colonel 851 Rep 2,005 Posts Drives: F30 335d Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Sheffield iTrader: (1) Garage List 2014 BMW 335d [0.00]	I took my car to the nearest garage which had a hunter alignment machine after I upgraded the suspension on mine. I supplied new eccentric bolts and nuts. The bolts had seized tight and had to be cut off, dropping the arm and hammering out the remainder of the shaft. It's a poor design for an adjustable part not to be better protected from the elements imo.
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03-18-2022, 02:17 PM	#4
KTE First Lieutenant 85 Rep 351 Posts Drives: A slow car Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: England iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the suggestions/experiences. Living room looks like I’m preparing for a war tomorrow, but better over equipped than stuck under the car wishing you had something. - Hammer drill with chisel attachments, varying widths, including pointed ones to push against bolt shaft if cut, or to shake it loose before having to go down the cutting route. - Recip saw, with recommended Milwaukee metal blades, 200mm. - Impact wrench (400Nm torque) - 2 batteries charged - Halfords 200pc tool set - Replacement roll over strut arms, these are symmetrical and fit both sides, and near enough every non M car across 3/4 series. This was a surprise. - Replacement eccentric bolts, washers and nuts. Will report back how easy that inner bolt was to get out, hopefully one of these options gets it done.
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03-19-2022, 03:59 PM	#5
KTE First Lieutenant 85 Rep 351 Posts Drives: A slow car Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: England iTrader: (0)	Ok - so things really went side sideways. Things are definitely in an emergency state, need some thoughts or anything we may have overlooked. The “seized” bushing just needing some persuasion with the impact wrench on the locking collar nut. The majority was surface rust which came off with the impact action. Eccentric bolt came straight out by hand!!! The problem: Popped in the replacement roll over strut, eccentric bolt through it (with some anti seize on the shaft/mid section) and washer in a position that fits between the two raised edges of the subframe, which makes sure it rotates within this area only. No matter what we have tried, we cannot line up the knuckle bush between the arm. The shock is very easy, but this just won’t play ball!! Things attempted: - loosen bolt between arm and subframe to allow for flex/movement when raising to knuckle - use camber adjustment to ‘lengthen’ or ‘shorten’ distance. Always seems that we need that but extra before it starts to go the opposite way. - raise the arm under the end - raise the arm under the spring - raise the arm between the spring section and end of the arm - Swear a lot as it got dark and I still fought on. What are my options to allow some flexibility to line up the god damn (final!) bolt. I’m so frustrated to get the damn arm off and get to the final bolt being unable to line it up. Have I skipped any obscure instructions? The above ISTA guide just says to replace bolts and get an alignment…
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03-19-2022, 07:21 PM	#6
Watsey Major General 6450 Rep 8,516 Posts Drives: F31 330D sDrive M Sport Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: On sabbatical. iTrader: (1)	I'm pretty sure there was a post about the same thing on the suspension forum a few months ago. I can't be more specific but you may be able to find it via search. Edit - I see you've posted there. Hopefully someone will help you out. __________________ Current : F31 330sD, remapped, Ohlins Road & Track, Millway camber plates, Quaife LSD, Stoptech brakes + Pagid RSL1 pads all round, Weichers front strut brace, Eibach front & rear anti-roll bars, Michelin MP4S.
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03-20-2022, 12:53 AM	#7
KTE First Lieutenant 85 Rep 351 Posts Drives: A slow car Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: England iTrader: (0)	Thanks - thought it would be useful to post there too. Did find some old threads via search after posting yesterday, just not labelled up correctly but similar issues it seems: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1741650 https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1833253 The wheel carrier arm bush is flexible, but the slot it is housed in isnt. You can move the hub up and down, but not sideway/tilt at an angle. At least the threads eliminate the idea of damaged arms in the post etc, even reattempted with the old arm with new fixings but no luck. Will see if some rest and more daylight hours help today, such a pain in the ass job that last bolt!
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03-20-2022, 04:32 PM	#8
Craig-SM Captain 325 Rep 709 Posts Drives: BMW 320d M Sport - F30 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Leeds iTrader: (0)	You need to pull out the bottom of the hub, away from the arm until it can drop into the lower arm. You will need to adjust the lower arm height until you can get them to meet. Only pull hub slightly away, enough to clear the hub. If the lower arm is still too far to the rear then you probably have the jacking handle to the rear too and it will pull the arm in that direction as it lifts. Change the angle of the jack so the handle faces forwards and the arm will go in that direction too.
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03-20-2022, 05:14 PM	#9
Mikej0h Private First Class 50 Rep 98 Posts Drives: BMW 540i G30 2018 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Europe iTrader: (0)	That connection is a PITA, had the exact same problem when I replaced my springs (and the shocks). As my memory serves me right; - Removed the shock, as the additional pressure really didn't help (it's simple to place this back) - Try rotating your supporting jack-stand so it sticks out parallelly with your wheelbolts - weight was added at a little different way, for me it was possible to stick a large screw driver in (make sure it's beefy one) - Lower the supporting jack and place it at the bottom of the brake disc (be careful not to bend the protection plate, but even if you do, you can quite easily bend it back) - add a towel or wood block to protect the disc. Raise it until you get movement in the screwdriver and place the bolt (and retract the screwdriver of course), some love taps might be required This how we got it done - no guarantees, but hopefully it helps you out.
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03-21-2022, 04:26 AM	#10
Sasquartch Major 606 Rep 1,455 Posts Drives: 520i G30 Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Herts iTrader: (0)	I had a very frustrating time when I replaced the rear spring on my 328i As you say it's very difficult to align the hole, however perseverance paid off, although I remember it taking a good hour. Just keep moving things around, an extra pair of hands to manhandle the hub might be useful It will go in eventually ....
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03-21-2022, 05:50 AM	#11
Craig-SM Captain 325 Rep 709 Posts Drives: BMW 320d M Sport - F30 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Leeds iTrader: (0)	Don’t forget you can use a screwdriver through the holes to align them especially when adjusting the jack
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04-02-2022, 07:06 AM	#13
KTE First Lieutenant 85 Rep 351 Posts Drives: A slow car Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: England iTrader: (0)	Got the car recovered and both new strut arms are on. Decided to provide ball joints whilst the above job was being completed. Turns on the ball joint on the left was never seated properly from what looks to be factory (only one previous owner). The weathering/surface rust is not consistent across the circumference of ball joint, the hole size on the left rear knuckle (wheel carrier) is also larger. Right rear side sorted… Rear left awaiting replacement wheel carrier with pressed hub. The new replacement ball joint would not be securely fitted.
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