EAE Update-Carbon Fiber Plenum

[Abdul]

Originally Posted by Chrisyphus

560 Memorial drive, Danville, Virginia. 24541
(434) 478-1169
I am not always at my desk as I have parts to make, so feel free to email me if I do not answer: Chris@parteeracing.com

Lets schedule a time. We love to show off our shop.

Thanks a lot for chiming in. It’s always a breath of fresh air to have experts like yourself a part of the conversation. Just be patient with some of the members here. We want you stay engaged. I know you have better things to do than going back and forth with members, but I believe you have a wealth of knowledge to offer to this community. Most people will appreciate it.

I also definitely encourage anyone living close to Danville to visit Partee Racing and see the production process for yourself.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by ygoz

You sure about that mate? I voted in your poll at the time and took a screen shot of the results as even I was surprised

This is the latest 1-piece CF plenum w/ lexan window design? Not the most appealing design but that comes down to individual taste/choice. Lexan “amazing” How much volume did smoothing out the raised ribs add? If that’s the only change in geometric features then it’s negligible.

If a 1-piece design is so much better because it doesn’t have, and I quote, “less weak points”, why would you design a version that adds more “weak points”? So you designed a 1-piece version for what purpose again?

[Abdul]

Originally Posted by tdott

You talk like this only happened one time, whereas there has been several poorly launched products.

Anyways less talk, more action, lets see something go well with happy customers for once.

I love the way you side stepped the answer Chris gave you and just focused on a nagatice.

I don’t get what you’re saying. Every product I have launched has been successful so far. The first product I launched were Throttle Actuators and it’s been 5+ years and thousands of our units are in cars across the world. Thosands of happy customers across the world. Even FCP Euro buys from us. With EAE, we designed the Power Steering Reservoir. We’ve sold hundreds in the last year and can never keep it in stock. There is absolutely NO product on the market that solves the PSR leaking issue other than the EAE one. We launched the e39 M5 expansion tank and that has been received by the community with so much excitement. Each one of our products are unique and affordable. We have many more products coming out this year. Hopefully, you will be able to appreciate the product line.

Anyways, like you said, less talk and let plenum speak for itself. I hope this is the last time you have to go back and forth. Let’s sit back and enjoy the plenum. If you like it, by all means buy it. If it’s not your cup of tea, then by all means pass up on it.

[Chrisyphus]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

It doesn’t take much effort to select materials for a part that has to support its own weight in a 1.25-1.5 g loading environment + a secondary enforced deformation loading.

You're right. I never said it did, I was simply answering your questions. I am not sure why you are acting as if I made it seem like it was such a difficult... I explicitly said that this is basic stuff, so I am a bit lost as to your point here other than to... what try to make yourself seem like the smartest guy in the room?

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

One vs two piece CF plenum designs If you can’t design a bonded joint capable of developing the full strength of 1 or 2 plies of a CF fabric then you should not be designing a 1 piece CF plenum.

I never said that I couldn't, that's your assumption. It's all but effortless. It would have been easier. We chose not to because we believe that in this application, this way is better. You're free to come to whatever conclusions you want.

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I’ve designed and tested CF-to-Inconel adhesively bonded structural assemblies that had to survive 11 Kelvin (-439.8 degF) and operate at 19 Kelvin, and required bonding multiple complex CF structures together.

Wow, you're a really smart guy. I am impressed by how smart of a guy you are.

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

A 1 piece monocoque design by itself doesn’t make it inherently better than a 2 piece design.

Obviously not. but it isn't inherently worse either.

[Abdul]

Originally Posted by reidetailing

Abdul,

Do you know if Nuke Performance Fuel Rails will be compatible with your Billet Valve covers? I don't see why not but just wanted to double check.


This plenum sounds incredible btw!

~Alex

Thanks a lot! The plenum does look and sound amazing.

I received your preorder for the valve covers. I also can’t see a reason why it won’t be. But let me check with the engineering team and get back with you.

[DRLane]

Thanks Chrisyphus for joining in!

Everyone else, we do not have that many forum participants that have demonstrated professional MS knowledge on the forum. He could be another fantastic resource for a wide range of topics, DONT FUCK IT UP FOR EVERYONE!

If you hate the plenum, hate Abdul, or just need your online debate itch scratched. Please reconsider how you’re engaging here.

[ygoz]

Originally Posted by Abdul

I love the way you side stepped the answer Chris gave you and just focused on a nagatice.

I don’t get what you’re saying. Every product I have launched has been successful so far. The first product I launched were Throttle Actuators and it’s been 5+ years and thousands of our units are in cars across the world. Thosands of happy customers across the world. Even FCP Euro buys from us. With EAE, we designed the Power Steering Reservoir. We’ve sold hundreds in the last year and can never keep it in stock. There is absolutely NO product on the market that solves the PSR leaking issue other than the EAE one. We launched the e39 M5 expansion tank and that has been received by the community with so much excitement. Each one of our products are unique and affordable. We have many more products coming out this year. Hopefully, you will be able to appreciate the product line.

Anyways, like you said, less talk and let plenum speak for itself. I hope this is the last time you have to go back and forth. Let’s sit back and enjoy the plenum. If you like it, by all means buy it. If it’s not your cup of tea, then by all means pass up on it.

What do you mean by “launch” in regards to throttle actuators?

The product is rebuild.org and you are a reseller.
Well done (truly) on a warehousing business. But the product is not yours

[Chrisyphus]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

This is the latest 1-piece CF plenum w/ lexan window design? Not the most appealing design but that comes down to individual taste/choice. Lexan “amazing” How much volume did smoothing out the raised ribs add? If that’s the only change in geometric features then it’s negligible.

IIRC it was a touch under 60 cubic inches, which you are right about, at face value is a mere 2% change. Negligible is right.

but as one of my favorite "celebrity" engineers once said, "The more someone knows about aerodynamics, the less certain they are with their answers."

I've found this to be overwhelmingly true as intuition often bows to data.


Intuitively, we can both agree that a 2% difference (and I am rounding up there) is negligible. but if you take a closer look you'll see that it's a 13% gain in an area 4" around the inlets to the velocity stacks. Still not that much.. until you consider the fact that it's a 60% increase in height from the bottom of the rib (now just the inside of the dome) to the top of the inlet. This is a fairly major decrease in restriction.

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

If a 1-piece design is so much better because it doesn’t have, and I quote, “less weak points”, why would you design a version that adds more “weak points”? So you designed a 1-piece version for what purpose again?

Oooof you're going after grammar and phrasing now?

If you can't see the benefit of removing a potential failure mode, there's no reason to continue this conversation.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Chrisyphus

You're right. I never said it did, I was simply answering your questions. I am not sure why you are acting as if I made it seem like it was such a difficult... I explicitly said that this is basic stuff, so I am a bit lost as to your point here other than to... what try to make yourself seem like the smartest guy in the room?



I never said that I couldn't, that's your assumption. It's all but effortless. It would have been easier. We chose not to because we believe that in this application, this way is better. You're free to come to whatever conclusions you want.




Wow, you're a really smart guy. I am impressed by how smart of a guy you are.



Obviously not. but it isn't inherently worse either.

Originally Posted by Chrisyphus

IIRC it was a touch under 60 cubic inches, which you are right about, at face value is a mere 2% change. Negligible is right.

but as one of my favorite "celebrity" engineers once said, "The more someone knows about aerodynamics, the less certain they are with their answers."

I've found this to be overwhelmingly true as intuition often bows to data.


Intuitively, we can both agree that a 2% difference (and I am rounding up there) is negligible. but if you take a closer look you'll see that it's a 13% gain in an area 4" around the inlets to the velocity stacks. Still not that much.. until you consider the fact that it's a 60% increase in height from the bottom of the rib (now just the inside of the dome) to the top of the inlet. This is a fairly major decrease in restriction.




Oooof you're going after grammar and phrasing now?

If you can't see the benefit of removing a potential failure mode, there's no reason to continue this conversation.

Unless you’ve done CFD analysis of the airflow inside the plenum or measured the delta in flow rate, the volume and/or area difference(s) may/may not matter.

My comment had nothing to do with grammar. It was taking a design that was supposedly superior for its lack of weak points, adding weak points to one of your design options yet still stating the design is superior because it’s one piece.

All of my comments are based on the marketing bs supporting why this is the best plenum design on the market.

[E92Bean]

How does the sealed carbon plenum differ from Carbon Klasse’s plenum?

[tdott]

Originally Posted by Abdul

Every product I have launched has been successful so far. The first product I launched were Throttle Actuators and it’s been 5+ years and thousands of our units are in cars across the world.

How many customer service issues did you have for customers regarding not being told they weren't in stock? not getting units for weeks with no communication? Glad you hopefully turned that around, but you just need to search for threads on here to see how many instances there were of poor customer service.

Regarding the pre-order failures which threads seems to have all vanished, all I would say is anyone who was waiting for their purchase is "it will ship next week" and how that phrase became a running joke after months of lies about shipping.

[Chrisyphus]

Originally Posted by E92Bean

How does the sealed carbon plenum differ from Carbon Klasse’s plenum?

Theirs uses a more OEM-like velocity stack design- curved towards the inlet, and the shell is a larger, rounder, design.

I am sure it performs quite well. But for my taste, it is too round. I do not like the look of it.

[Abdul]

Originally Posted by E92Bean

How does the sealed carbon plenum differ from Carbon Klasse’s plenum?

“Our plenums consist of replacing the top half of the OE Air Box with a full high temp carbon fibre version..”

This is from their site. Their plenum only replaces the top part and they bond it to the OEM bottom. That to me is just a very bad idea. Our plenum is completely different at all levels.

[Chrisyphus]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Unless you’ve done CFD analysis of the airflow inside the plenum or measured the delta in flow rate, the volume and/or area difference(s) may/may not matter.

You're right.

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

My comment had nothing to do with grammar. It was taking a design that was supposedly superior for its lack of weak points, adding weak points to one of your design options yet still stating the design is superior because it’s one piece.

Sure it didn't.

You're telling me that in your mind, there's no reason to limit failure modes to as few as possible if you're going to have any at all for the sake of aesthetics?

So in your world, you see windows on a house and think "why put a wall up at all if you're just gonna leave a hole in it?"

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

All of my comments are based on the marketing bs supporting why this is the best plenum design on the market.

We do think it's better. You disagree. feel free to go be wrong elsewhere. The fact of the matter is it is a good design using high-quality products, made in the USA, with my two hands at a significantly lower price than all of our competitors.

You've argued in circles, asking what the improvements are, asking why we think it's better than before, and now you're asking why we decided to have a window if we wanted to limit failure points.

The simple answer is because we can, because we want to, and because people want to buy it.

Why you are spending so much energy on the topic, I'll never know.

[Chrisyphus]

Originally Posted by Abdul

“Our plenums consist of replacing the top half of the OE Air Box with a full high temp carbon fibre version..”

This is from their site. Their plenum only replaces the top part and they bond it to the OEM bottom. That to me is just a very bad idea. Our plenum is completely different at all levels.

To be fair, Abdul, they have options. You can get a top replacement @ $1460 or you can replace the entire assembly @ $2364

[E92Bean]

Originally Posted by Abdul

“Our plenums consist of replacing the top half of the OE Air Box with a full high temp carbon fibre version..”

This is from their site. Their plenum only replaces the top part and they bond it to the OEM bottom. That to me is just a very bad idea. Our plenum is completely different at all levels.

They actually have a full carbon plenum as well, similar design as yours eliminating the ribs. Plus, larger diameter angled carbon trumpets. Out of curiosity why did you opt for aluminum non-curved trumpets? I’ve heard it shifts the powerband to higher RPM, but the curved trumpets give more torque in the mid range.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Chrisyphus

You're right.



Sure it didn't.

It absolutely did not.

You're telling me that in your mind, there's no reason to limit failure modes to as few as possible if you're going to have any at all for the sake of aesthetics?

So in your world, you see windows on a house and think "why put a wall up at all if you're just gonna leave a hole in it?"

In my world, improperly designing a window would lead to the loss of human life.



We do think it's better. You disagree. feel free to go be wrong elsewhere. The fact of the matter is it is a good design using high-quality products, made in the USA, with my two hands at a significantly lower price than all of our competitors.

You've argued in circles, asking what the improvements are, asking why we think it's better than before, and now you're asking why we decided to have a window if we wanted to limit failure points.

Actually, I asked a valid question which has lead to this. I didn’t ask why you put a window in; instead, it was a response to the marketing bs that your design is the best because it’s a one piece design but is it?

The simple answer is because we can, because we want to, and because people want to buy it.

Why you are spending so much energy on the topic, I'll never know.

I am not arguing in circles. No, you’ll never know.

[e92dud]

Originally Posted by Abdul

“Our plenums consist of replacing the top half of the OE Air Box with a full high temp carbon fibre version..”

This is from their site. Their plenum only replaces the top part and they bond it to the OEM bottom. That to me is just a very bad idea. Our plenum is completely different at all levels.

Carbon klasse makes a full carbon plenum now. Main difference between yours and there’s is they have carbon oem inlets, instead of aluminum trumpets. They state on their website they didn’t want to use dissimilar materials due to different expansion and contraction rates. Do you see any problems where the aluminum and carbon bond together in the future?

[e92dud]

Originally Posted by E92Bean

They actually have a full carbon plenum as well, similar design as yours eliminating the ribs. Plus, larger diameter angled carbon trumpets. Out of curiosity why did you opt for aluminum non-curved trumpets? I’ve heard it shifts the powerband to higher RPM, but the curved trumpets give more torque in the mid range.

Guess we were thinking the same thing.

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by Chrisyphus

We do think it's better. You disagree. feel free to go be wrong elsewhere..

That’s some world class customer service right there. I just hope the best plenum in the world is half as good as that.

[Chrisyphus]

Originally Posted by e92dud

Carbon klasse makes a full carbon plenum now. Main difference between yours and there’s is they have carbon oem inlets, instead of aluminum trumpets. They state on their website they didn’t want to use dissimilar materials due to different expansion and contraction rates. Do you see any problems where the aluminum and carbon bond together in the future?

That’s a really good question & I can see why they chose to go that route.

If we had bonded the Aluminum to the carbon, it would have been a minor concern across 100*c you can expect the material to expand ~2.3 mm

Our prepreg, like most, on the other hand is formulated for a near perfect zero CTE.

Lengthwise on our flanges we could expect to see about a third of that across 100*c this is sort of a worst case scenario, obviously, but it is concerning. For this reason we decided that instead of bonding the aluminum we use a gasket and fasteners to secure the flanges to the carbon.

[Chrisyphus]

Originally Posted by kolosy

That’s some world class customer service right there. I just hope the best plenum in the world is half as good as that.

Come on. Calling him a customer is not real. He has been combative since his first comment.