New member | Interested in a 128i/6

[Spannerhead]

At the moment this is more of a fact-finding mission than anything else... My better half got the latest "nice" car (an '06 XC90) so I'm up now, but I'm going to have to wait until the E82 depreciates just a little more, I think. I've owned older cars up until now but I think the time might be ripe for something newer, with only 1 or 2 owners instead of the usual 7-8, etc.

So the target vehicle would be an AW 6-speed 128i with the sport package. So my question: How "tossable" does the car feel? This is important. I've owned 3 BMWs so far: An '86 635, '95 525 and a '95 540i, all manuals. The 540 was by far the fastest, but I find myself missing the 525 the most just because of how utterly balanced it felt to drive. It danced through the corner and felt like it pivoted around the driver's seat; there was no hint of nose-heaviness at all. I loved it. This is a primary reason I'm leaning toward the 128 over the 135. I know it's a tall order, but I'm looking for that transcendent driving experience.

My other question is: How many of your service your own cars? What on an E82 would you absolutely want to take the car to a dealer for? I do all my own car work and it's important to me to be able to get grease under my fingernails. I'm not wishing for car to be less reliable, just curious about shadetree mechanic experiences.

Thanks!

[Gray_Panther]

You point the car at a turn and it will make the turn. This thing gives you so much confidence, the car will understeer more than oversteer unless you are doing <23.245mph.

Car is easy to work on, I would take it to a mechanic only for waterpump/timing belt.

[Spannerhead]

Thanks for the input. I guess what I'm asking is does the car feel nose-heavy at all? Where does the CG feel like it's at when you tackle a roundabout or a series of linked curves? Firewall? Driver's seat? Farther forward? There are plenty of cars that stick; balance is what I'm after.

I ask this knowing full well that it's probably the sort of thing only a test drive will answer to my satisfaction.

See I would tackle a timing belt or a water pump myself. Really hoping those tasks don't require too many special service tools.

[cmcdonald]

The car is incredibly balanced. There are some flaws in the stock suspension but the balance is perfect not at all nose heavy. I say go drive one you will love it.

[Spannerhead]

Originally Posted by cmcdonald

The car is incredibly balanced. There are some flaws in the stock suspension but the balance is perfect not at all nose heavy. I say go drive one you will love it.

Good to hear.

What are the flaws in the suspension? Too much understeer built in from the factory?

[128Convertibleguy]

Originally Posted by Spannerhead

So the target vehicle would be an AW 6-speed 128i with the sport package. So my question: How "tossable" does the car feel? This is important. I've owned 3 BMWs so far: An '86 635, '95 525 and a '95 540i, all manuals. The 540 was by far the fastest, but I find myself missing the 525 the most just because of how utterly balanced it felt to drive. It danced through the corner and felt like it pivoted around the driver's seat; there was no hint of nose-heaviness at all. I loved it. This is a primary reason I'm leaning toward the 128 over the 135. I know it's a tall order, but I'm looking for that transcendent driving experience.

IMHO, you won't get it with a stock car on run flats. The tires are too stiff, the suspension too soft in some annoying ways to compensate.

You can fix those. How depends on where you want to go, street car that handles and rides well, but has less ultimate grip, or track car that handles and grips very well, at some expense to the ride. Some care about the cosmetic factor, I pretty much don't. You'll get tons of ideas here, but the final plan will be up to you. Budget for it.

[Spannerhead]

Appreciate the input. I think it's a feeling I'm after, something that can't be quantified by numbers or even really concrete terms like "grip" or "soft/firm." Something to do with the weight distribution and the harmony of all the parts of the car regardless of the particular suspension setup. That's what I felt in my old 525i, and that's what I'll be after with an E82.

The closest 128i 6MT for sale is in Atlanta, which is a bit far from Chattanooga for a quick test drive. Looks like I'll have to sit tight for a little while until one pops up more local.

[Huecifer]

The center of gravity feels low and centered. It has the feeling of pivoting around corners because of the short wheelbase and fat tires. It has tons of grip and a pretty high threshold for it. But, it understeers at the limit, and getting it to oversteer requires a lot of effort because of the fat tires. When it is oversteering, it's a bit of a handful because of a lack of a differential. Basically, it's tons of grip, then understeer, then snap oversteer. There is no steering with the throttle. It's grippy, but at 10/10ths, not very balanced.

You basically learn to enjoy it at 5-9/10ths. Also, it's important to point out that this car at 8/10ths is going way faster than most at 10/10ths.

[Spannerhead]

This beauty is still available...

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...ngId=371756961

I'd have to forgo the Sport Package (unless I added the sport seats and suspension bits myself later), and it'd be a nice cross-country get-to-know-your-new-car experience... Heh.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Good luck

[Kgolf31]

The car will push in stock form. There isn't any way around this. The lack or really any rear bar (w/out sports package) is setup to push. In stock form, the COG feels high.

I've done a lot of my car, and only with my modifications is where I've eliminated understeer and developed the car into a throttle oversteer car.

Regardless, the car is going to understeer. It is perfectly fine for daily driving, but push it to the limit and it will suck.

[nikijack]

Hi: This is the best car I've ever had, and I've had 8 BMWs. The 318ti Club Sport was slightly more toss able, but this came second. And I do all my own work. The only problem I had, other than normal maintenance, was a rear wheel bearing, which was easy, because the bearing completely disintegrated. Next time I might farm that job out. The car has 165,000 Jack

[speedbird]

2011 128i 6mt BMWP intake, and it's been absolutely flawless. It still amazes me how planted it is on tight onramps and just how stable a platform it is. Recommended

[JimD]

Mine is a e88 (convertible) with only sports package and walnut trim as options. I couldn't find a manual 1 series to test drive so I drove a 3 series coupe instead. I liked it but the 1 series feels much more "tossable". More nimble. The manual also has shorter throws, but with a bit more effort. Feels great to me. Mine improved when I got rid of the run flats and went with a square setup of PSS tires, using the rear size. I have not run an autocross yet to see if I helped tame the understeer but it has to have helped. On the street, I do not push it hard enough to find out. Until you hit the absolute limit of traction, it feels balanced. I drive twisty roads in it (like tail of the dragon (multiple times) including at what I feel are pretty good pace but still don't find the limits unless I'm on a track.

I did the 2 day M school in 2011 and liked the M3 the best because it was the most nimble of the M3, M5 and M6 group. I wanted to go back to try the 1M when they had some but didn't due to other things going on. I would like a M6 on a cross country trip or something but for a spirited drive I prefer something smaller and lighter. If that is your preference, I think you will like a 128i. It has power enough to be fun and handles great.

[Spannerhead]

Thanks for all the input, guys. It's greatly appreciated. This really seems like a good group of folks. Re:getting an E82, we'll see how this goes. It'll be weird owning a car with little, if anything, broken on it! I don't know what I'll do with myself... Drive it maybe?

[Solo_M_Tech]

I've owned both. You cannot positively feel a difference between the two as far as front end weight. Yes the 128i is lighter and closer to a 50/50 weight distribution, but simple suspension mods, a proper alignment, and wider stickier tires up front will kill the understeer. You will appreciate the extra power with the 135i, but can lead you to enter turns to fast and exaggerate the understeer issue. Stock for stock the 128i feels more balanced, but your not gonna leave it stock, so why not get the extra power and better brake system from the start? just my .02 cents. As you can see I've tracked both.

[DarkenDioxen]

I just bought a 2008 128i, this is my third BMW and 5th model I have driven. In between Bimmers I had a Subaru Legacy GT, and a Mini Cooper S. Nothing will ever beat the Cooper for pure seat of the pants go cart driving. But it was missing that touch of refinement, and comfort for everyday use.

The 128i felt and performs the closest to my E36 328is, and that's why I went with it. Strong engine, fun handling dynamics (a touch more under-steer). And much more satisfaction. The same year 330 seemed much heavier and far less toss-able.

I have the 135 brake package and the sport package, The sport package I think is worth the extra bucks for the sport seats alone. The car can be doing all sorts of crazy stuff and you stayed glued in the seat, sheathed in comfort!

Get a 128 (or 135) have a mechanic check it over to be sure it is what they advertise it to be . Sounds like you aren't afraid of a wrench so you should be fine with the maintenance that you may need to do, Good Luck!

[Max L]

I own E82 128i and have owned E24 635csi and two E34's (535i and M5) as well as dozen of E30's, few E21's and E36's in the past. Still have E36 M3 (wife's car) and E21 320, so I can compare.

To make it short- if you could live with recirculating ball steering of E24/34, you will love the tossability of E82. Being tall, E82 fels roomy, more like E34 inside and you will not feel as low/cramped as E24.
E82 has more practical interior- nice and useful compartments etc, especially comparing to 6 series.

Disadvantages- E82 ride is way more choppy and bouncy than E24-E34's. Much worse, 128 just does not feel as planted and solid. It's very quick and nimble but in a bouncy wild horse way. More exciting
Just like with any other modern car- quality of materials is not there. E 82 is put together well, but styrofoam dash and cheap plastic everywhere is not comparable to high quality chrome and wood used in older 5 and 6 series. Kinda like Ikea furniture vs old fanshioned wood furniture. But it's not really fair to compare as E82 is not top of the line executive car 5 and 6 series used to be.

As far as DIY repairs- E82 128 is very simple. Especially if it's not loaded with satnav and other electronics (comfort access, etc). Very similar to E36 and very DIY. Has better cooling system than E36's, so nothing should go wrong there. BMW clearly addressed other issues that E36/46 family had 128i is not hard to work on, I think it's much more DIY friendly than 540, not to mention less problematic.

Feel free to PM me if you have more specific questions.

Max

[chris82]

You don't need to change anything to have fun with this car except for the suspension. The dampers are the real issue. Smooth roads are fine, and highway cruising is quite good actually; but start going over some rough patches and it will instantly strike you as 'floaty'. Accelerating over bumps in the road also causes the car to 'hop', and you'll feel this everytime. The dampers are simply not setup properly (it's not just the runflats). My advice is to upgrade dampers if that kind of thing bothers you. Other than that, the 128i is one of the most true modern BMWs you can get due to its size and NA I6.

[128Convertibleguy]

Originally Posted by mxl556

Disadvantages- E82 ride is way more choppy and bouncy than E24-E34's. Much worse, 128 just does not feel as planted and solid. It's very quick and nimble but in a bouncy wild horse way.

Originally Posted by Chrisar82

You don't need to change anything to have fun with this car except for the suspension. The dampers are the real issue. Smooth roads are fine, and highway cruising is quite good actually; but start going over some rough patches and it will instantly strike you as 'floaty'. Accelerating over bumps in the road also causes the car to 'hop', and you'll feel this everytime. The dampers are simply not setup properly (it's not just the runflats). My advice is to upgrade dampers if that kind of thing bothers you. Other than that, the 128i is one of the most true modern BMWs you can get due to its size and NA I6.

The issues above are relatively simple (for suspension), if you don't need to get ultimate grip, or lower the car. You can get rid of bouncy/floaty, if that's your focus.

BMW puts runflats with very stiff sidewalls on the car. And then calibrates the suspension to give a reasonable ride. The shocks, in particular, have damping designed for runflats. The combination of the stiff sidewalls of the runflats and the dampers is often described as bouncy or floaty or both.

Koni FSDs or many other good, but not competition, shocks will mostly solve the problem. But the FSDs are good only if you don't want to lower the car or use stiffer springs than stock. The FSDs will neither work well or last long, if you do those. Assuming you do non runflats, you'll have to do something about the possibility of a flat tire.

If you want to lower and use stiffer springs, I suggest buying a complete package from a professional, like the BMW Performance suspension, rather than cobbling up something. It's all too easy to wind up with a car that's worse than stock.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

The issues above are relatively simple (for suspension), if you don't need to get ultimate grip, or lower the car. You can get rid of bouncy/floaty, if that's your focus.

BMW puts runflats with very stiff sidewalls on the car. And then calibrates the suspension to give a reasonable ride. The shocks, in particular, have damping designed for runflats. The combination of the stiff sidewalls of the runflats and the dampers is often described as bouncy or floaty or both.

Koni FSDs or many other good, but not competition, shocks will mostly solve the problem. But the FSDs are good only if you don't want to lower the car or use stiffer springs than stock. The FSDs will neither work well or last long, if you do those. Assuming you do non runflats, you'll have to do something about the possibility of a flat tire.

If you want to lower and use stiffer springs, I suggest buying a complete package from a professional, like the BMW Performance suspension, rather than cobbling up something. It's all too easy to wind up with a car that's worse than stock.

I agree, BMW Performance suspension is the way to go

[Max L]

All I wanted to do is warn OP who is spoiled with E24 and E34 cars that E82's ride is simply crap in comparison.

Now as far as my car goes, I appreciate effort to educate me. I have tried different shocks and I do not have runflats on the car. I have M sport suspension now and I find it a good compromise. It is OK. Koni would be helpfu but they won't "fix" the car. I would add that base non sport suspension on E82 is just miserable.

Although I agree that stock shocks lack valving, after driving older BMW's for over 20 years I can say that the problem is not just shocks. Drive any old BMW, even with blown suspension and you will see what I mean. E82 rides too choppy. I believe better shocks and stiffer bushings (i.e. M3 bushings) will solve some of the "rocking", however choppy ride will be hard to get rid of as I personally believe it's due to a high center of gravity, height of the car, a lot of weight on top of the car, and short wheelbase with narrow tires(for the size and weight).

E82 is a great car by today's standards and I like mine a lot, but its far from old BMW's of the 70's-80's and 90's in ride quality and general quality.

Just my 2 cents.



Max
1973 Karmann Ghia
1981 320i
1999 M3
2011 128i