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      02-19-2013, 12:09 PM   #1
ussoldierforhire
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Keto Diet

I'm currently doing my winter bulk and have decided to try a ketogenic diet to cut for summer. I was wondering if anyone here has experience with this type of diet and maybe has some pointers, types of food, expected loss rate, etc.
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      02-22-2013, 02:02 AM   #2
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I haven't, but I've looked into it. The problem is that you have to understand what you will be losing. Burning fat is nice, but what will happen to the muscle? Your body still needs protein to maintain muscle mass, and obviously needs it to increase muscle mass.

There are formulas all over that outline protein intake, but for building you generally want to be in the 1-2g/lb of body weight. For maintenance, Lyle McDonald claims you need about 1-1.5g/lb of lean body weight. If you drop your protein considerably, understand that you may lose muscle mass, or you may not see full results from your workout because your muscles are not getting enough to repair themselves.

I understand the idea behind ketogenic diets, but I have a hard time accepting their validity for people who do body building. For us, you walk a fine line when you cut, because if you do it wrong you can lose muscle.

I also understand the desire to look good for swimsuit season, but are you building/bulking for size, or for just looking good at the beach?

My skepticism lies with the differences of body chemistry. There are ways that can work well for most people, but cutting carbs is usually an effective way. I wonder whether the ketogenic diet is benefited by the low carbs more than maybe it's acknowledged.
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      02-22-2013, 03:45 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reedo302 View Post
I haven't, but I've looked into it. The problem is that you have to understand what you will be losing. Burning fat is nice, but what will happen to the muscle? Your body still needs protein to maintain muscle mass, and obviously needs it to increase muscle mass.

There are formulas all over that outline protein intake, but for building you generally want to be in the 1-2g/lb of body weight. For maintenance, Lyle McDonald claims you need about 1-1.5g/lb of lean body weight. If you drop your protein considerably, understand that you may lose muscle mass, or you may not see full results from your workout because your muscles are not getting enough to repair themselves.

I understand the idea behind ketogenic diets, but I have a hard time accepting their validity for people who do body building. For us, you walk a fine line when you cut, because if you do it wrong you can lose muscle.

I also understand the desire to look good for swimsuit season, but are you building/bulking for size, or for just looking good at the beach?

My skepticism lies with the differences of body chemistry. There are ways that can work well for most people, but cutting carbs is usually an effective way. I wonder whether the ketogenic diet is benefited by the low carbs more than maybe it's acknowledged.
Too much to read after a night of drinking. But if you did a bulk doing a keto will eat at your muscle too. Look for a clean diet with enough protein to keep your muscles up.
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      02-22-2013, 09:06 AM   #4
ussoldierforhire
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Well the premise behind the diet is to eat a lot of protein and fat. I realize I'll lose some muscle, which is why i'm bulking before cutting. Also, from what I've read, you do one carb-up a week and this keeps the body from switching to burning protein. With ANY weight loss diet, you will lose muscle. Its just math, burning more calories than you take in.

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Originally Posted by reedo302 View Post
I haven't, but I've looked into it. The problem is that you have to understand what you will be losing. Burning fat is nice, but what will happen to the muscle? Your body still needs protein to maintain muscle mass, and obviously needs it to increase muscle mass.

There are formulas all over that outline protein intake, but for building you generally want to be in the 1-2g/lb of body weight. For maintenance, Lyle McDonald claims you need about 1-1.5g/lb of lean body weight. If you drop your protein considerably, understand that you may lose muscle mass, or you may not see full results from your workout because your muscles are not getting enough to repair themselves.

I understand the idea behind ketogenic diets, but I have a hard time accepting their validity for people who do body building. For us, you walk a fine line when you cut, because if you do it wrong you can lose muscle.

I also understand the desire to look good for swimsuit season, but are you building/bulking for size, or for just looking good at the beach?

My skepticism lies with the differences of body chemistry. There are ways that can work well for most people, but cutting carbs is usually an effective way. I wonder whether the ketogenic diet is benefited by the low carbs more than maybe it's acknowledged.
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      02-22-2013, 09:21 AM   #5
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I haven't looked into keto much. I've recently switched my eating habits around though. I've done two weeks of a paleo based diet. I stay away from grains, breads, dairy, added sugars, and definitely processed sugars (HFCS). I can eat meats, veggies, some fruits, etc. Everything has to be clean though, i.e. the meats have to be grass fed/free range, free of hormones and anti-biotics, all that stuff. A lot of people think this is a low or no carb diet, but it's not that at all. My carb sources are just different. Squash, pumpkin, sweet potatoes/yams. No bread carbs, and few carbs from fruits (natural sugar). Naturally because of my new selections, my protein and fat intake is higher and carbs are lower than before. I have not felt a decrease in performance or energy levels though.

So far I am down 11 pounds from that and the workouts I am doing. I can still get up to 2300-2500 calories a day, even though it might be a little tough without all the empty calories from breads and grains.

I'm not looking to bulk up. I feel I have enough muscle mass for my body type to appear proportionate, so I am looking to lean out a bit, but MORE THAN ANYTHING I am looking to FEEL better. After eating a meal with tons of grains/dairy or bread and sugar, I always felt crappy and bloated and just nasty. I haven't felt like that in weeks. I had ONE day where I cheated a bit, we were on the road and had to eat on the go, so we grabbed something small from Starbucks. I got a small coffee cake and a sweet drink. Felt sick within an hour and had to stop on the way home to use the restroom. I decided then I would try to stick to my diet unless it was literally impossible to avoid.
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      02-22-2013, 09:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
I haven't looked into keto much. I've recently switched my eating habits around though. I've done two weeks of a paleo based diet. I stay away from grains, breads, dairy, added sugars, and definitely processed sugars (HFCS). I can eat meats, veggies, some fruits, etc. Everything has to be clean though, i.e. the meats have to be grass fed/free range, free of hormones and anti-biotics, all that stuff. A lot of people think this is a low or no carb diet, but it's not that at all. My carb sources are just different. Squash, pumpkin, sweet potatoes/yams. No bread carbs, and few carbs from fruits (natural sugar). Naturally because of my new selections, my protein and fat intake is higher and carbs are lower than before. I have not felt a decrease in performance or energy levels though.

So far I am down 11 pounds from that and the workouts I am doing. I can still get up to 2300-2500 calories a day, even though it might be a little tough without all the empty calories from breads and grains.

I'm not looking to bulk up. I feel I have enough muscle mass for my body type to appear proportionate, so I am looking to lean out a bit, but MORE THAN ANYTHING I am looking to FEEL better. After eating a meal with tons of grains/dairy or bread and sugar, I always felt crappy and bloated and just nasty. I haven't felt like that in weeks. I had ONE day where I cheated a bit, we were on the road and had to eat on the go, so we grabbed something small from Starbucks. I got a small coffee cake and a sweet drink. Felt sick within an hour and had to stop on the way home to use the restroom. I decided then I would try to stick to my diet unless it was literally impossible to avoid.
I am in the same boat as you man. I've been eating clean for about three months now. I've dropped my body fat percentage about 3% and gained some good lean muscle mass. I've always been a gym rat and ate well, but the past few months I've really decide to take myself to the next level, and the only way to do it was to clean my diet up. So I did, and over the course of the past three months I've had maybe a total of 5 cheat days...and I feel terrible afterwards! It's always the same deal too, on the road for work or vacation or something. Then I'm in the restroom regretting it! It's crazy how the body wants and needs nutrition when you start feeding it the right way and how it rejects when you feed it with saturated fats and processed ingredients. This is a lifestyle for sure.

I can't comment on the Keto topic. I've never tried it. This might be some good info for you though.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...t=36497&page=1
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      02-22-2013, 10:06 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM135iAM View Post
I am in the same boat as you man. I've been eating clean for about three months now. I've dropped my body fat percentage about 3% and gained some good lean muscle mass. I've always been a gym rat and ate well, but the past few months I've really decide to take myself to the next level, and the only way to do it was to clean my diet up. So I did, and over the course of the past three months I've had maybe a total of 5 cheat days...and I feel terrible afterwards! It's always the same deal too, on the road for work or vacation or something. Then I'm in the restroom regretting it! It's crazy how the body wants and needs nutrition when you start feeding it the right way and how it rejects when you feed it with saturated fats and processed ingredients. This is a lifestyle for sure.

I can't comment on the Keto topic. I've never tried it. This might be some good info for you though.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...t=36497&page=1

I've done clean diets like this before and have had good results. Just not to the level I'm looking for. I'd really like to get my BF% close to single digets this time.
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      02-22-2013, 10:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM135iAM View Post
I am in the same boat as you man. I've been eating clean for about three months now. I've dropped my body fat percentage about 3% and gained some good lean muscle mass. I've always been a gym rat and ate well, but the past few months I've really decide to take myself to the next level, and the only way to do it was to clean my diet up. So I did, and over the course of the past three months I've had maybe a total of 5 cheat days...and I feel terrible afterwards! It's always the same deal too, on the road for work or vacation or something. Then I'm in the restroom regretting it! It's crazy how the body wants and needs nutrition when you start feeding it the right way and how it rejects when you feed it with saturated fats and processed ingredients. This is a lifestyle for sure.

I can't comment on the Keto topic. I've never tried it. This might be some good info for you though.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...t=36497&page=1
+1

I do have to say though, the saturated fats don't seem to bother me as long as I eat them in moderation. The fats I get from nuts and meats that are saturated seem to be just fine. I also use the animal fats and clarified butter to grease my pan to cook with and the taste is infinitely better. I also use extra virgin olive oil and coconut oil when I'm not using any animal fat. As long as the source is clean (like organic, no sugar added pork sausage), then it's fine for what I am doing.

The grains and bread is really what seems to mess with my insides. Maybe I have a slight gluten allergy (although I did try gluten free stuff and felt kind of crappy too).
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      02-22-2013, 11:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
+1

I do have to say though, the saturated fats don't seem to bother me as long as I eat them in moderation. The fats I get from nuts and meats that are saturated seem to be just fine. I also use the animal fats and clarified butter to grease my pan to cook with and the taste is infinitely better. I also use extra virgin olive oil and coconut oil when I'm not using any animal fat. As long as the source is clean (like organic, no sugar added pork sausage), then it's fine for what I am doing.

The grains and bread is really what seems to mess with my insides. Maybe I have a slight gluten allergy (although I did try gluten free stuff and felt kind of crappy too).
Yeah man, sugars are what get me the most. The only sugar my stomach can handle is natural sugars from fruits. Anything else makes me cramp! lol! I only eat whole wheat toast and brown rice, and I hardly eat very much of it.
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      02-22-2013, 06:18 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by RambleJ View Post
Too much to read after a night of drinking. But if you did a bulk doing a keto will eat at your muscle too. Look for a clean diet with enough protein to keep your muscles up.
Fouad Abiad recently commented on this issue and basically advocated the same thing. Instead of just trying to trick your body or do things, eating right and eating the proper amounts of quality nutrients is more important.
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      02-23-2013, 08:58 PM   #11
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It sounds like you know how to cut pretty well and are just looking for a little kick, try throwing in some GW50156. That will push your body to burn more than what you would on your diet alone.
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