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      04-19-2012, 06:01 PM   #1
rader1
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Absolute horror.

I've never posted in the politics/religion section before(for some reason people always take things personal) However, this is something that can't possibly be defended. It's not democrat or republican or anything like that.
This is what I'm talking about:
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Kuwait’s parliament on Thursday provisionally passed amendments to the Gulf state’s penal code stipulating the death penalty for those who curse God, Islam’s Prophet or his wives.

Forty-six MPs, including cabinet ministers, voted for the key amendments that will come into effect only after another round of voting and government approval. The second and final vote will take place in two weeks.

Four Shiite MPs voted against the law, a pro-Shiite Sunni lawmaker abstained, while two MPs refused to vote.

Shiite MPs have demanded that the new amendments also enforce the death penalty for anyone who curses their sect’s 12 revered Imams, but the Sunni- dominated parliament rejected their requests.

The move to stiffen penalties for religious crimes came after authorities last month arrested a Shiite tweeter for allegedly cursing the Prophet Mohammed, his wife and some companions.

The suspect, Hamad al-Naqi, is being detained pending further interrogation and trial.

Sectarian tensions have flared in Kuwait between the Sunni majority and Shiites, who form about a third of the native population of 1.17 million, reflecting rising regional tensions between the two Islamic sects.
Here is a link to the original page:http://english.alarabiya.net/article...12/207242.html

There is NO way this "law" should ever be allowed to be enforced. This is absolutely sickening that the world we live in now is still so ignorant as to kill someone for simply insulting an idol. Regardless of your views on religion, one persons beliefs should never overrule someone else's freedom of speech, much less kill them for it. THIS IS ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT.
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      04-19-2012, 06:30 PM   #2
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Kuwait doesn't exactly abide by the 1st amendment.

It's made significant steps forward for women's rights and shi'ite tolrance over the past several years. It will continue to be a predominantly sunni state and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't even think you can officially move there unless you're muslim, so you (presumably) have nothing to worry about.



This is what I would post under 'absolute horror', and it just happens to be happening right here at home:

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      04-19-2012, 06:47 PM   #3
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That picture is showing that some people still want their children to grow up with morals. Obviously you didn't take it that way because you're view is different. But remember just because your view is different then their view, it doesn't mean you are right, and they are wrong.
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      04-19-2012, 06:49 PM   #4
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You're absolutely right about what you said and pictured(I'm an atheist and have been since early childhhood) Its amazing how it's descrimination against religion only when it's the christians that get the short end of the stick.

But i still can't wrap my head around the idea that "fuck allah" deserves a death penalty.

No matter what advances they've made, if they allow that become law(which appears is going to happen) then i can hold no other opinion of them other than ignorant, hate spewing, fairy tale obsessed neanderthals. That is a very bad thing to think about a huge group of people, but if they(as a country) allow that to become law, thats all kuwait will be IMHO.
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      04-19-2012, 06:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SoFlo View Post
That picture is showing that some people still want their children to grow up with morals. Obviously you didn't take it that way because you're view is different. But remember just because your view is different then their view, it doesn't mean you are right, and they are wrong.
MORALS? Have you read the bible?
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      04-19-2012, 07:08 PM   #6
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Those people have been killing themselves and each other for thousands of years.

I think America has enough to worry about...
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      04-19-2012, 08:07 PM   #7
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According to most of the civilized world, the death penalty in the US is barbaric.
Different strokes for different folks
What's inhumane over here is common practice over there
And what's acceptable here (right to own guns, gunatanamo etc) is considered sub-human over there
Thankfully I've lived in enough places to have an open mind
(I'm Muslim, but have lived half my life abroad (Poland, new Zealand, Sweden) and half in my home country of Egypt)
keep in mind, a lot of things done in the name of Islam, have no relationship whatsoever with the religion. I know if you listen to the media in this country, you'd think all Arabs/Muslims have explosives wrapped around their waist, just aching to press the button.
But a lot of the shit that's done in Saudi Arabia (women can't drive etc) is due to their backward male dominated society.
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      04-19-2012, 08:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
According to most of the civilized world, the death penalty in the US is barbaric.
Different strokes for different folks
What's inhumane over here is common practice over there
And what's acceptable here (right to own guns, gunatanamo etc) is considered sub-human over there
Thankfully I've lived in enough places to have an open mind
(I'm Muslim, but have lived half my life abroad (Poland, new Zealand, Sweden) and half in my home country of Egypt)
keep in mind, a lot of things done in the name of Islam, have no relationship whatsoever with the religion. I know if you listen to the media in this country, you'd think all Arabs/Muslims have explosives wrapped around their waist, just aching to press the button.
But a lot of the shit that's done in Saudi Arabia (women can't drive etc) is due to their backward male dominated society.
Believe me when i tell you that i harbor absolutely no ill will/thoughts toward islam or any other religion.

I believe that islam is used the same way in the middle east as christianity is used in the US: Powerful people playing on other peoples deepest beliefs in order to further their own agendas. The same way that the death penalty is legal because of the "eye for an eye" biblical belief, the subjegation of women is justified(ARGUABLY) in the quran.
I am not intimately familiar with the Quran but i am with the Bible and it's easy to see how some people could misrepresent meanings and achieve a desired result.

Its a shitty situation because it feels wrong telling people of a different culture that they're wrong when our country is in the state it's in, but it seems that there should be some way to prevent stuff like that from happening.
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      04-19-2012, 08:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rader1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SoFlo View Post
That picture is showing that some people still want their children to grow up with morals. Obviously you didn't take it that way because you're view is different. But remember just because your view is different then their view, it doesn't mean you are right, and they are wrong.
MORALS? Have you read the bible?
+1. Sorry SoFlo, but a large aspect to the issue is exactly this--Christians believing that others are morally inferior. I'm an atheist but consider my moral character to be as solid not because I do more nice things, but because I do them out of reasoning and personal satisfaction, not because I'm coerced into doing them because of religion. If the person in the FB feed wasn't as antagonistic towards the moral structure of 'atheists', he wouldn't have broken off what was supposedly a (once) close relationship on those grounds.

I have absolutely no problem with people practicing their religion and respect what religion in general has allowed in terms of social/political/economic development over the course of history, including Christianity in the US. I don't think what the given legislation is aiming to achieve in Kuwait is much different. Although the shi'ite MPs voted against it, it doesn't seem to explicitly target or restrict sunni rights.

What is surprising (as I alluded to by posting the feed) is the lack of attention the effects of the [largely] republican/religious/"patriotic" social culture that is brewing in the U.S. are receiving. Since so many in some form belong to it, any criticism or even close analysis is quickly dismissed. I am convinced that it's reform (or lack thereof) and subsequent political restructuring may prove central to the progress of this country over our lifetimes.
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      04-20-2012, 09:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SoFlo View Post
That picture is showing that some people still want their children to grow up with morals.
Wow. WOW. WOW! I am speechless. Let me get this straight; you're defending this statement: "I've had it up to here with this no morals America. Gays, liberals, and worst of all these atheists are ruining our country and at this point I think we should just exterminate them. When the time of reckoning comes, I want the American to be pure". So you're advocating for Hitler-like mass exterminations, yes? That's what you consider to be moral?

And what kind of response is "some people still want their children to grow up with morals"? I mean, what the f is that? ALL people want their children to grow up with morals. So you believe that murdering millions of innocent people just because of your intolerance is moral? Liberals are immoral? Really? And because you were somehow made to believe that being gay or atheist is immoral, you - just a regular guy with a BMW; but not a god, a prophet, or a messiah - you feel that you are qualified to judge the morality of others, and decide who should be eliminated from this world.

You've given me yet another reason to hate Florida.
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      04-20-2012, 10:31 AM   #11
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Kind of the reason I am starting to hate organized religion completely (no matter what type it is). It drives people (not all, but some) to be absolutely bat-shit crazy.
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      04-20-2012, 11:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
Kind of the reason I am starting to hate organized religion completely (no matter what type it is). It drives people (not all, but some) to be absolutely bat-shit crazy.
“Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.”
― George Carlin
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      04-20-2012, 12:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
Kind of the reason I am starting to hate organized religion completely (no matter what type it is). It drives people (not all, but some) to be absolutely bat-shit crazy.
This has always been the case. What's changed is the amount of credibility and influence our society is giving them, and the increase in effect of religion in politics.
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      04-20-2012, 08:18 PM   #14
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and please don't take the above post as me mocking Christianity
i have a lot of respect for the religion
but i also realize that ALL religions have some weird things about them
even in my own, there are some things that drive me crazy, and i can't accept them
like the marrying 4 women (surely a sign of insanity) or inheritance (males gets double female)
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      04-20-2012, 09:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
Are you talking about the same benign religion that's systematically wiped most of the Jews off the earth, is the foundation of the KKK, skinheads, militia, those southwest cults, Timothy Mcveigh, Jared Laughner, the nut in Norway? Christianity has a big lead in the worldwide murder department. Not very benign.
You forgot the big one. The Inquisitions.... lets face it, all of the worlds religions have their skeletons.
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      04-20-2012, 09:56 PM   #16
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You forgot the big one. The Inquisitions....
No, that's part of wiping out Jews. I meant that collectively; crusades, holocaust, all of it.
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      04-21-2012, 05:45 AM   #17
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Also, the Catholic Church protects child rapists. If any of us did that, we would be in jail.
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      04-21-2012, 07:12 AM   #18
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Also, the Catholic Church protects child rapists. If any of us did that, we would be in jail.
Oh here we go ....

Religion whether Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc. doesn't advocate in any way doing bad things to people like Scotch stated. That is just ignorant. Sorry but you just don't get it.

People have been taking religion and using it for their own purposes, purposes that are 180 degrees opposite of what was intended, for thousands of years. It will continue. There are so many hypocritical people walking this earth that are racist but think they are good because they go to Church on Sunday, for example.

This doesn't have anything to do with the religion. Religion isn't broken; people are BROKEN.

So everyone that wants to blame a religion for people being murdered or whatever are way off. Cults may be different but I am talking about true mass religions on this Earth. People are to blame.
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      04-21-2012, 09:39 AM   #19
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No, that's part of wiping out Jews
??

Google Inquistions
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      04-21-2012, 09:43 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by AMPowerJ View Post
Oh here we go ....

Religion whether Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc. doesn't advocate in any way doing bad things to people like Scotch stated. That is just ignorant. Sorry but you just don't get it.

People have been taking religion and using it for their own purposes, purposes that are 180 degrees opposite of what was intended, for thousands of years. It will continue. There are so many hypocritical people walking this earth that are racist but think they are good because they go to Church on Sunday, for example.

This doesn't have anything to do with the religion. Religion isn't broken; people are BROKEN.

So everyone that wants to blame a religion for people being murdered or whatever are way off. Cults may be different but I am talking about true mass religions on this Earth. People are to blame.
+1

I could not have put it better. It's totally unfair to attribute blame to a religion when people don't properly follow it. I can highlight many places in the Quran where it teaches you that racism, oppression, murder, discrimination and even things like gossip/defamation are forbidden. Likening Islam to a "death cult" would be the same as someone accusing all Christians or being murderers like George Bush. It just isn't fair to tar everyone with the same brush.
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      04-21-2012, 10:04 AM   #21
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I think what iDeliver is talking about is how the Catholic Church, at least here in the US, was protecting these pedophile priests by moving them around to different parishes after finding out about their pedophilia. It wasn't that the bible was saying the priests had to have sex with children, it's that the church actively hid it. If you or I did that with someone with an organization we ran, we'd find ourselves in jail. I totally agree with what iDeliver says.
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      04-21-2012, 02:26 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Religion whether Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc. doesn't advocate in any way doing bad things to people like Scotch stated.
I never stated that, never said that Christianity advocated anything. I was countering the argument that followers of Christianity are benign, compared to Muslims.

I agree 100% with your statement that none of these religions advocate the violence which has been carried out by people in their name. Fact is, so-called Christians are way ahead in murders compared to so-called muslims.

Yes, it's people like e90soflo, not religion, that declares who's not moral, and needs to be exterminated.
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